BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 23:03:22 GMT
|
Hey guys, I need some help. I have always gone out of my way to avoid any work with ball joints as I always seem to have loads of trouble with them and I could do with some help, Almost every ball joint I have worked on I have not been able to get the nut off of the end as the threaded section of the ball joint spins. I realise that some ball joints have a hex key input on the bottom of them so that they can be held with a hex key and the nut can be removed but if this isn't there I just end up in a massive mess. I have a friends car in tomorrow for some new suspension to be fitted but the track rod end goes into a bracket on the strut. Can any one give me any help or advise on how to remove the ball joints as hassle free as possible? Thank you all very much. EDIT Here is a photo of the area in question
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 25, 2012 23:55:17 GMT by BT
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 23:17:45 GMT
|
Get as much weight on it as possible.
Sometimes putting a jack underneath the balljoint (if it's an upward facing one) then jacking it until it's pretty much lifting the car should help you undo the nut without the tapered pin spinning.
If you have access to one of those cordless snap-on impact guns, use that on the nut and the vibration/shock of the impact gun should help get the nut off without the oin spinning. Obviously if you have access to air tools then a windy gun will do the same thing.
|
|
|
|
murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 23:25:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 23:29:37 GMT
|
Which is next to useless if you can't get the nut off in the first place...
|
|
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
Ball Joints stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
|
Jan 25, 2012 23:33:43 GMT
|
If you're renewing the joint just get a ratchet on the nut then hit the other side of the joint with a hammer whilst undoing usually enough to get it off.
All that needs to happen is that the tapered shaft locks into position tighter.
|
|
|
|
BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
|
|
Jan 25, 2012 23:39:12 GMT
|
Get as much weight on it as possible. Sometimes putting a jack underneath the balljoint (if it's an upward facing one) then jacking it until it's pretty much lifting the car should help you undo the nut without the tapered pin spinning. If you have access to one of those cordless snap-on impact guns, use that on the nut and the vibration/shock of the impact gun should help get the nut off without the oin spinning. Obviously if you have access to air tools then a windy gun will do the same thing. Thanks a lot for that, it gives me a few ideas to work with hopefully it is a upward facing joint so I can jack it from underneath. Sadly I do not have any access to any impact gun of any sort. If you're renewing the joint just get a ratchet on the nut then hit the other side of the joint with a hammer whilst undoing usually enough to get it off. All that needs to happen is that the tapered shaft locks into position tighter. I was hoping to re use the joints that are already on there if they are undamaged. If they are damaged then removal will not be a issue and I will fit some new ones. Thanks a lot for the replies! EDIT I do have a ball joint splitter but it seems to be for once the nut is removed. I have no problem separating the ball joint, it is just removing the nut from the thread.
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 25, 2012 23:40:37 GMT by BT
|
|
|
|
|
I recently had to change the wheel bearings on the Golf. The ball joint nuts came off easy, they were spinning when I put them back on though, so I just clamped it with mole grips and tightened it that way.
|
|
1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
|
|
|
|
|
Now you've put a picture up...the ball joint is the wrong way up to use a jack under it. First thing, wire brush the living daylights out of the thread & nut then LOADS of penetrating oil. Not just WD40 but proper penertating oil. Leave to soak for a good few hours (ideally overnight but it doesn't sound like you have that luxury?) If you can get something in to lever down onto the top of the balljoint to put pressure on it that will help stop the pin from spinning....a long bit of 4"x4" will usually do the trick because you can normally get a lot of leverage onto it without causing any damage. Matts trick is a good one but you do risk damaging the ball joint - always worth trying if you really can't get the nut off? As an absolute last resort, there is always the slitting disc method to remove the nut, but I really wouldn't want to think of that route until you are sure you've tried everything else. Make sure you have a new balljoint to hand if you do use that method
|
|
|
|
CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
|
|
|
A little heat on the nut will help it along, or a very large set of grips crushing the shaft into the shank to stop it spinning (similar to putting a jack on an inverted balljoint)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26, 2012 20:16:55 GMT
|
wind the nut all the way off and then put it back on before breaking the taper.
Wire brush and oil and a little bit of feeling should have it off
|
|
|
|
|
BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
|
|
|
Thank you all for your replies! I am hoping that it is a pretty straight forward job. I am determined to get it done pretty effectively. I have considered some mole grips on the end of the stud! Now you've put a picture up...the ball joint is the wrong way up to use a jack under it. First thing, wire brush the living daylights out of the thread & nut then LOADS of penetrating oil. Not just WD40 but proper penertating oil. Leave to soak for a good few hours (ideally overnight but it doesn't sound like you have that luxury?) If you can get something in to lever down onto the top of the balljoint to put pressure on it that will help stop the pin from spinning....a long bit of 4"x4" will usually do the trick because you can normally get a lot of leverage onto it without causing any damage. Matts trick is a good one but you do risk damaging the ball joint - always worth trying if you really can't get the nut off? As an absolute last resort, there is always the slitting disc method to remove the nut, but I really wouldn't want to think of that route until you are sure you've tried everything else. Make sure you have a new balljoint to hand if you do use that method Thanks again Mystery Machine! Full of helpful knowledge! The car got dropped with me earlier this evening before a trip to the pub. It is getting collected on Sunday so I have a few days with the car. I am hoping to get the ball joints out of the way nice and early tomorrow morning. I did think that the last resort would be removing the nut with a small slit along the nut but like you say this would be a absolute last resort. I will be sure to update this thread with any problems or success'
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
AHA....so you've already got the car, but I bet you haven't wire brushed the area around the nut you need to remove...or soaked it in penetrating oil yet? Doing it tonight and leaving it overnight will work wonders for getting it off tomorrow. Proper penetrating oil is a life saver, but only if you allow it the time to do its job Good luck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2012 11:47:17 GMT
|
Ones like that shudnt spin that easy if u clean the thread up, its one with nylock nuts on that can be a pain.
if it does spin, and its the same as the one in the picture, i always have the car on an axle stand so the suspension is fully extended then get a piece of wood put on top of the balljoint, then other end goes to something solid(usually just inner arch), then use the jack to jack the suspension up so all of the cars weight is in that balljoint, always seems to do the trick. If not its time for heat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2012 11:53:54 GMT
|
Which is next to useless if you can't get the nut off in the first place... No! It's indeed VERY purposefull for removal of the nut ;D Put it on the other way 'round and put some pressure on the ball joint - and remove the nut with a spanner.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2012 12:07:18 GMT
|
PROTIP. Tighten it a bit before loosening. It'll get the threads moving and free, and pull the taper in even tighter to help stop it spinning. As above, it's not a nylock, which is good news. Again, as above, Oil and a good wire brushing first make a massive difference. It'll probably come off without much aggravation if you clean it up first. Make sure you do! If you have any trouble getting the taper separated, don't try and hammer it out by hitting the end of the thread upwards. It'll jolly pain in the backside the thread and won't get you anywhere fast. You need to hit the steering arm here: Hit it as hard as you can with your biggest hammer. After a few solid blows it'll pop the taper out, undamaged. I spent years ruining threads before I learned this trick and it has changed my life. With any joint like this, I always cover the threads in a big dab of grease after reassembly. Copper grease if you have some, but anything will do. It'll make your life a lot easier in the future.
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 27, 2012 12:07:32 GMT by cobblers
|
|
bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
|
|
Jan 27, 2012 12:22:50 GMT
|
Did a pug 806 yesteday with exactly this setup, large crowbar on top of the joint lean on it with your chest whilst undoing/doing up the nut, worked for me
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 27, 2012 12:23:20 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
|
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2012 22:12:48 GMT
|
perhaps its me, perhaps its late, but that looks like a track rod end to me,
anyhow, remove splilt pin, remove nut fully (wire brush, wd40 optional) put the nut back on for a couple of threads (to protect the threads from slipping hammers etc)
i have a 3/4 inch round bar about a foot in length, couple of smacks with a lump hammer on the thoughtfully placed star, will see it cracked in no time
most track rods ends can be locked by a pair of mole grips on the shaft of the track rod end, and pushed down, this will stop the threaded taper from spinning, or placing a jack on the bottom as someone else suggested
cant give advice on ball joint removal/fitting, as i cant see one, however jacking up underneath the bottom of the ball joint will stop it spinning when refitting
copper slip as above, even on cars that aren't yours, as they are likely to come back for more work
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2012 12:04:55 GMT
|
|
|
You're like a crazy backyard genius!
|
|
bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
|
|
Jan 29, 2012 16:36:32 GMT
|
perhaps its me, perhaps its late, but that looks like a track rod end to me, anyhow, remove splilt pin, remove nut fully (wire brush, wd40 optional) put the nut back on for a couple of threads (to protect the threads from slipping hammers etc) I have a 3/4 inch round bar about a foot in length, couple of smacks with a lump hammer on the thoughtfully placed star, will see it cracked in no time most track rods ends can be locked by a pair of mole grips on the shaft of the track rod end, and pushed down, this will stop the threaded taper from spinning, or placing a jack on the bottom as someone else suggested cant give advice on ball joint removal/fitting, as I cant see one, however jacking up underneath the bottom of the ball joint will stop it spinning when refitting copper slip as above, even on cars that aren't yours, as they are likely to come back for more work Yes, yes it is, have a star what is on the end of a track rod end? A BALL JOINT and you'll never guess (what rob? tell us, tell us) on the end of a track control arm there is another BALL JOINT ok lessons in sarcasm and the names of car parts over with for the day
|
|
R.I.P photobucket
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2012 17:21:29 GMT
|
I'm going to changing the track rod ends on the Golf soon. While I was changing the front bearings I had a little check to see how easy the track rod ends (not lower ball joints) will come off and...........the nearside retaining nut (which you have to slacken to get the track rod end off) is seized and already slightly rounded off. I gave it a squirt of WD and carried on with the job at hand. The nut now awaits me.....
I'm planning on heating the nut up and using Molegrips. Has anyone got any better methods?
|
|
1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
|
|
|