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Sept 28, 2006 20:37:40 GMT
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any suggestions for my poor dad as he is tearing his hair out with his Beta 1.6 saloon. its overfuelling something rotten - the exhaust STINKS, it runs terribly making that 'woofly' noise of an over rich engine and the plugs are as black as hell. one daty it was running great, the next it wasnt. So far, while trying to cure it he has: 1) replaced the coil  2) had the carb to bits and fettled it with a rebuild kit - there were a few knackered gaskets and a punctured diaphragm, all of which are now replaced, but the problem persists; 3) checked the timing and replaced the plugs 4) checked the fuel return line - clear 5) checked the autochoke - perfect. the choke butterfly returns to the right position no probs. The other symptom of this problem, is the sump is filling up with petrol! he's not even been anywhere in it for ages but while trying to get to the bottom of this problem the oil level has gone up by 2 inches. he has changed the oil but now the new oil is starting to fill up with juice. I presume this is due to 'bore wash' but it seems to be so bad that i can't believe this much juice is getting past the piston rings. WTF is going on? Any ideas? Its a Weber downdraught carb. Glad i gave him ths car now, what a pain in the rse!!! for interest here is a pic of it in mid-repairment.  |
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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Sept 28, 2006 20:50:41 GMT
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Is it a mechanical fuel pump? Is the fuel level in the carb normal (I don't suppose it has a little window in like the Datsun carbs has it?)
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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kerbsidemotors
Part of things
kerbsidemotors! A refreshingly helpful, genuine, unpretentious ebay seller!
Posts: 99
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Sept 28, 2006 20:55:29 GMT
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Wow! A Lancia Beta has survived! :>D
I'd be tempted to blame the floats in the carb (Especially if you have been poking around it). Have a look at the float jet thingy to to make sure the taper that seals it up doesn't have a ridge worn into it.
But I'd also check any engine breathers can...er...breathe! As this could cause a vacuum in the cylinders after running causing them to syphon the fuel through. Might want to check the exhaust isn't blocked or obstructed especially because of the strange noise, smell and if it is spitting back.
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Sept 28, 2006 21:05:09 GMT
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Sept 28, 2006 21:08:50 GMT
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what he needs is two more spark plugs, on in the sump, one in the exhaust, flames from all over the place a go go!!! i had a simular thing on a fast road engine i built for the kitten, never got it going right, in the end it was the cam - i bought it off some guy in the 750mc for £18 as a fast road cam that needed timing to standard - what evAr! so i popped it back on ebay and sold it for £100! however, you wonna watch the bore wash! i made this using nothing but pertrol...  you realy don't want to have the engine out - changing one piston.... the day boefore your MOT! Bore wash is a evil evil thing... and on a lighter note, i once made a ride on lawnmower go pretty quick... but i blew it up by running it on a mixture of petrol and diesal (dad put petrol in a diesal car.... ), it blew up because the diesal got down the bore, filled the sump, and then once it got up to tempreture it started to go back the other way to the point it was dieseling... then it broke! |
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Sept 28, 2006 21:35:39 GMT
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:)If it has a mechanical fuel pump I reckon the diaghragm is failing and letting fuel go straight in the sump. It could richen the mixture simply by the fumes entering the air intake from the breathers. Incedentally it's extremely dangerous...given the wrong conditions the oil/fuel mix can ignite and self destruct the engine.
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Sept 28, 2006 21:37:51 GMT
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:)If it has a mechanical fuel pump I reckon the diaghragm is failing and letting fuel go straight in the sump. It could richen the mixture simply by the fumes entering the air intake from the breathers. Incedentally it's extremely dangerous...given the wrong conditions the oil/fuel mix can ignite and self destruct the engine. That's what I was wondering. It's also quite possible that the over fuelling and the fuel in the sump may not be the same problem. Sounds unlikely I know but worth bearing in mind. |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Sept 28, 2006 21:40:47 GMT
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happens on stock imps with the fuel pump on the cam box, diaphragm (sp?) splits letting raw fuel into the sump, this could come from a too higher fuel pressure which would push fuel past the needle valve over flowing the float chamber and making it run mega rich.
J
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Sept 29, 2006 7:59:58 GMT
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:)If it has a mechanical fuel pump I reckon the diaghragm is failing and letting fuel go straight in the sump. It could richen the mixture simply by the fumes entering the air intake from the breathers. Incedentally it's extremely dangerous...given the wrong conditions the oil/fuel mix can ignite and self destruct the engine. That's what happens on bugs  |
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Sept 29, 2006 8:03:57 GMT
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Certainly sounds like it it could be fuel pump related.
To test it I would put an electric fuel pump on. Even without a regulator you should be able to see an improvement.
Apart from that I would check the float and the float chamber fuel cut off valve thingy (whatever its proper name is). I had a problem with my escort when I fitted a 38 DGAS and thats what it was down to
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Sept 29, 2006 8:27:04 GMT
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Nice one folks! In fact he replaced the fuel pump not long ago, but later founf the old one was OK (the fuel line had been blocked). I'll get him to bosh the old pump back on and see what happens.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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Sept 29, 2006 8:37:40 GMT
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Yeah and do look to see if the float is split, as this will cause it to fill with fuel, drop to the bottom of the float chamber and then fill the carb / intake / engine with fuel
J
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Sept 29, 2006 8:48:43 GMT
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^ Yes! this is exactly the same symptons I had once with one of the carbs on a 4cyl Yamaha Motorcycle. ...also is carb piston sticking open (although I understandably realise you have striped carb)?  |
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kerbsidemotors
Part of things
kerbsidemotors! A refreshingly helpful, genuine, unpretentious ebay seller!
Posts: 99
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Thanks for sticking up for me Twincam!
The only Lancia with a carb I remember working on had a Weber downdraught carb with floats. At the end of the float was a small valve with a taper seat. When the floats reach a certain level it is supposed to cut the fuel. If the engine is stopped there will still be some pressure in the fuel line. This should cause the floats to rise and shut the valve off but if the float is filled with fuel (as Blownimp stated) or if the taper seat won't seal (As twincamGTI said) or if you have not set the float level correctly (As I said) that would cause the bores to fill with fuel.
That said if the diaphram in the fuel pump was leaking it would also fill the sump with fuel but I can't for the life of me remember if your car has a mechanical fuel pump!
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