|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 16:57:43 GMT
|
I'm not sure on one particular point with this set up.  The rear lights themselves, what are the legalities on where and how they're fitted? As far as I'm aware they need to be no more than 800mm in from the edge of the car (car was first registered in January 1985) but it's been mentioned to me elsewhere that the marker lights also need to be fixed to the bodyshell, not the tailgate. I can't find any legislation on this aspect so either there isn't a law for it, or I've just not found it yet. The only difference it will really make to what I'm doing is how I cut the tailgate up when I get to that point. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 17:23:22 GMT
|
|
Looks ok, but it's unclear whether those lights are on the bootlid or the rear panel? If you had the lights fitted entirely to the tailgate, you would have to fit reflectors in such a position that they were visible when you opened the tailgate, for example the underside of the bottom of the tailgate, some cars like Vauxhall Insignia estates have the lights on the boot, but there is a reflector in the side of the boot shut, as well as in the rear bumper. You'll also need a fog light, which must be off centre. Reversing lights aren't a legal requirement, number plate lights are.
|
| |
1989 Mini MG 1275 ~ 1987 VW Polo ~ 1989 Citroen 2CV ~ 1998 VW T4 ~ 2006 Volvo XC70
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 17:30:49 GMT
|
|
I should have mentioned, fogs and reversing lamps will be attached, probably under the bumper. The light clusters have brake/marker, indicator and reflector but are, in this design, fixed the the tailgate. Number plate lights are fitted, but hidden behind the corner bumpers.
|
| |
Last Edit: Jan 22, 2012 17:31:57 GMT by Deleted
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 19:23:11 GMT
|
I'm not aware of any directive about lights mounted in tail-gate, not to say there isn't one. a good starting point might be the IVA requirements, which I suspect are based on Construction and Use regulations. If you follow those, I guess you'll not go too far wrong. They're mostly concerned with max/min height of lights, distance from side of vehicle etc. www.minimag.co.uk/files/2011/08/M1-Inspection-Manual-May-09-1.pdfSections 20, 22, etc. may be worth checking. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 19:27:28 GMT
|
Do the reflectors have markings or writing on them indicating which is "TOP" ? Most aftermarket trailer items have to be a certain way round so car rear clusters could be the same. Doubt an MOT tester would notice though  Paul H |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 20:02:21 GMT
|
You'll also need a fog light, which must be off centre. Peugeot 206's have them in the centre of the bumper though, don't they? My understanding was thus: At least one has to be fitted after a certain date (1986 rings a bell), and, if off-centre, must be fitted on the off side. It has to be wired so that it can only be used in conjunction with the headlamps. they're normally fitted singularly and on the offside, normally forming part of the cluster, with a singular reversing light mirroring it on the near-side. Some have a pair, my 520i does. |
| |
1986 BMW 628csi, 2003 Alfa Romeo 147, 1992 Jaaaaag XJ40, 1982 BMW R100 cafe racer.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 20:02:56 GMT
|
|
@daryllweb: I think you provided the answer for me. As per the manual.
Section 20, paragraph 5, part a:
When every door, tailgate, boot lid, or other movable part is in the
fixed open position (any position in which the component will remain, with or without a fixed stay) each of the
* front and rear position lamps
* front and rear indicators
* rear retro reflectors
Must fulfill one of the following conditions:
a. half (50%) of the apparent surface of the lamp or reflector is visible from directly in front of / behind (as appropriate) the vehicle.
c. a notice in the vehicle must inform the user that in certain
positions of the movable components, other road users should be
warned of the presence of the vehicle on the road (e.g. by laying
out a warning triangle.
Which I think means if I attach them to the tailgate and they open with it, I need a notice inside the car to tell the occupant/s to put a warning triangle behind me.
@compo: There's no directional marker on the reflectors, just the FoMoCo emblem and appropriate E/British Standard type markings and a bunch of numbers.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 22:43:06 GMT
|
|
Very good point about the 206 fog light! I should know, I retro fitted one to a mini a few years back. Yes it must be on the O/S, as far as the centre, but not N/S.
|
| |
1989 Mini MG 1275 ~ 1987 VW Polo ~ 1989 Citroen 2CV ~ 1998 VW T4 ~ 2006 Volvo XC70
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2012 22:56:48 GMT
|
Yep, to the centre or offside for the rear fog (unless fitted in a pair in which case they must be a matched pair. I think. You'd need to check that...) I know that your car was build before the regs, but for clarification of the legal requirements re. positioning etc. your probably best reading up in The Road Vehicle lighting Regulations 1989 |
| |
...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If a car is built before a particular date, as mine is with the 1989 regs Ben mentions, does that mean the newer regulations don't apply?
I'm assuming so, because as far as I'm aware I don't need side repeaters or a passenger side mirror (but do need an interior mirror) because it was built the year prior to those things coming in.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I spoke to a bloke at a show about his RS200, I'd noticed a second set of lights on the frame. Seems to be a similar issue, odd way of getting round it though  Obviously all the standard lights are part of the rear lid.  |
| |
I've got Rovers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'll either make it so there's a hole in the tailgate that the lights - which would be fixed to the bodyshell - slot into, or I'll stick some tiny auxillary lights on the rear valance right up under the bumper or I'll see if I can get away with not doing it at all (the ideal, but only if it's legal).
The main worry with the legality side is that I don't want to go to all the trouble of customising the tailgate only to find it fails an MoT and then have to scrabble about for an unsightly solution to a problem that shouldn't even exist.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2012 21:28:37 GMT
|
If a car is built before a particular date, as mine is with the 1989 regs Ben mentions, does that mean the newer regulations don't apply? I'm assuming so, because as far as I'm aware I don't need side repeaters or a passenger side mirror (but do need an interior mirror) because it was built the year prior to those things coming in. What I failed to imply, was that the regulations wouldn't be entirely new. I'd imagine they are mostly a continuation/clarification of whatever existed previously, and that for the purposes of positioning the rear lights (ignoring side repeaters), the newer regs would be suitable. |
| |
...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So if you leave it alone it's the as-built regs but when you modify it's the as-new regs? Makes sense if so.
|
| |
|
|
RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
|
|
|
|
So if you leave it alone it's the as-built regs but when you modify it's the as-new regs? Makes sense if so. I'm not sure on the official line with this, but I think what Ben's trying to say, is that the 1989 regs could well just be a slight revision of regs that were already in place when your car was built in '85. Unless you can find the earlier regs to know what was changed about them in '89, then you're best off assuming that there was only minor revisions and following the '89 regs to be on the safe side. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gotcha. I'm a bit of time away from doing the above, but this thread has been quite informative and really does highlight to me what a minefield it can be to get things right. I suppose no two cases are alike.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So if you leave it alone it's the as-built regs but when you modify it's the as-new regs? Makes sense if so. I'm not sure on the official line with this, but I think what Ben's trying to say, is that the 1989 regs could well just be a slight revision of regs that were already in place when your car was built in '85. Unless you can find the earlier regs to know what was changed about them in '89, then you're best off assuming that there was only minor revisions and following the '89 regs to be on the safe side. exactly what I meant |
| |
...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 26, 2012 15:24:28 GMT
|
|
Certainly the 1989 regulations have varying regulations depending on when the vehicle was first used - the "Schedules" section is probably the most useful for determining the specific legalities of a given light.
The relevant part here is probably Schedule 10, Paragraph 12, sub-paragraph (b):
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2012 12:32:59 GMT
|
|
But is that then negated if a secondary set of lights is fitted to the bodyshell, like the RS2000 example above?
|
| |
|
|
Obviously all the standard lights are part of the rear lid.
