f3ared
Part of things
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Like everyone else has said, definately very lucky to have gotten the parts car so cheap with so much useable stuff on it. Bare with me here, as I know alot of you guys have a huge obsession with period-parts and all that sort of stuff, but I would look at a fair few changes engine wise. Turbo low down is fine, a close friend has a V8 late model Falcon with that setup making 500rwhp on low boost. The biggest negative to the setup is obviously ground clearance; it works quite well on his as despite being a ma-hooosive 1000hp roller bearing unit, it hides undearneath the chassis rails of the car. Definately a better setup then rear mounting a turbo. IHI RHB6 was used on the Mazda MX6 from memory, like others have said it isnt particularly easy to get parts or information for. Despite looking 'new' it would probably need a kit through it as the oil seals would be absolutely stuffed from sitting out in the weather this long. Wether you want to re-use this for period correctness or make a concession and get a more modern equivilant is obviously not my call to make so please don't take offence, I would honestly be looking at something like a Garret GT28 ex-SR20. That said, there were a fair few places in Aus that were doing 'high flow' rebuilds in the late 90's, using a bigger compressor wheel and other mods. ATS [Australian turbo sales] and Rotomaster [another turbo specialist, not Rotormaster which is a rotary workshop] were big on this so they may be ones you want to speak to. Interesting how many seperate modules were needed to control ignition, boost etc. Man have times evolved  Id be looking at simplifying the lot with a megasquirt or other standalone to control the ignition, thermo fans, boost solenoid etc. That, and id be realllly tempted to go efi as well [have tried the carby-turbo thing before, v-e-r-y temperamental]. That all said this is just my opinion from having done similar setups, hope you don't take offence. |
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Last Edit: May 7, 2012 21:37:27 GMT by f3ared
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mrluke
Part of things
Posts: 242
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Might be worth looking up bmw turbo setups as they have a similarly canted engine  |
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as a kid I always overlooked these as in my eyes at the time the only real Lotus was the esprit- I was about 10 and this was all due to Roger Moore in the white submarine Lotus. but I'm actually beginning to think I prefer the shape of this.... I'm with you on that one. I'd LOVE an Esprit but I actually prefer the look of the Elite for being (mostly) unloved and living in the shadow of the Esprit. Even the Eclat, which I don't like anywhere as much as the Elite. For me, it's the Elite all day long....70's disco looks which, if done 'right' I reckon could look cooler then anything else that has come out of Hethel since the early 70's. Loving the updates on this and seeing your ideas develop as you go and more of the cars history reveals itself. The history is most certainly revealing itself. This weekend just gone I discovered more of the work that has been done to it. It would appear that it was a 'no expense' build and that is becoming more and more obvious as I start to take other things apart. It's just such a shame that the years outdoors have taken their toll on the chassis and body.  Some of those oh so eighties boxes of electronics look like prime candidates for a Megajolt unit stealthily mounting into them. Funny you should say that, I was planning to do exactly that. Keeping the original look but with modern electronics inside (I can't remember if I'd mentioned that on the thread, but I'd certainly been discussing it with a few of the guys at Area 52 last weekend). The only problem at the moment is getting into the Micro Dynamics case....I tried yesterday but the screws are corroded so badly that I don't think they'll come out without drilling them out. I'll be giving it a go sometime soon, it needs to be kept but at the same time needs modern electronics. love the picture with the engine mount drilled out for lightness very lotus  I'm not sure if that's factory or if it's been done by the guy who rebuilt the car? If you see some of the other work that's been carried out, you'd understand when I say it's exactly the sort of thing he'd have done. Gaz was over yesterday and he was blown away by the heat shielding in the engine bay....in his own words, "That's the sort of quality you see in areospace construction, not just something glued in by your usual homebuilder". Gaz works in aerospace..... I simply cannot get across how awesome this is! Love it all. I'm still coming to terms with how things are happening by chance. When I bought Lotus I back in December I never for a minute thought I'd be ending up with a newly built turbo engine and other nice bits for next to nothing. I don't think it's going to stop there either....there might be some more news for this build on the horizon soon. |
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Like everyone else has said, definately very lucky to have gotten the parts car so cheap with so much useable stuff on it. Bare with me here, as I know alot of you guys have a huge obsession with period-parts and all that sort of stuff, but I would look at a fair few changes engine wise. Turbo low down is fine, a close friend has a V8 late model Falcon with that setup making 500rwhp on low boost. The biggest negative to the setup is obviously ground clearance; it works quite well on his as despite being a ma-hooosive 1000hp roller bearing unit, it hides undearneath the chassis rails of the car. Definately a better setup then rear mounting a turbo. IHI RHB6 was used on the Mazda MX6 from memory, like others have said it isnt particularly easy to get parts or information for. Despite looking 'new' it would probably need a kit through it as the oil seals would be absolutely stuffed from sitting out in the weather this long. Wether you want to re-use this for period correctness or make a concession and get a more modern equivilant is obviously not my call to make so please don't take offence, I would honestly be looking at something like a Garret GT28 ex-SR20. That said, there were a fair few places in Aus that were doing 'high flow' rebuilds in the late 90's, using a bigger compressor wheel and other mods. ATS [Australian turbo sales] and Rotomaster [another turbo specialist, not Rotormaster which is a rotary workshop] were big on this so they may be ones you want to speak to. Interesting how many seperate modules were needed to control ignition, boost etc. Man have times evolved Id be looking at simplifying the lot with a megasquirt or other standalone to control the ignition, thermo fans, boost solenoid etc. That, and id be realllly tempted to go efi as well [have tried the carby-turbo thing before, v-e-r-y temperamental]. That all said this is just my opinion from having done similar setups, hope you don't take offence. No offence taken at all and I really appreciate the time you've taken to make all the comments and feedback. The turbo in its current location isn't really ideal for two reasons. 1) because of the way it has to be mounted it actually sticks down lower than any other part of the car...lower than the sump, the crossmembers, everything. This is far from ideal because I intend to lower the car and really don't want to end up smashing the turbo to pieces. In the words of James yesterday, "The turbo location probably wasn't a problem when the guy installed it because it more than likely pre-dates speed bumps" The other reason is that the floor and chassis have been modified to get it to fit. I'm not at all worried about the floorpan because there is still a fair bit of legroom and it only looks like a kind of footrest against the transmission tunnel. The chassis, however, is less than ideal in my eyes due to the amount of metal that has been cut out and reshaped to accomodate the turbo. The job has been done quite nicely but I would far rather have a 'normal' chassis than one that has been cut and (possibly) compromised this much! I'm not for a minute considering a rear mount turbo, it's just not a solution that sits well with me. The idea of such long pipe runs for the induction, oil feed etc...plus it's something that seems to me to be a bit of a 'last chance' to squeeze something in where it can't be accomodated somewhere else. As you've probably seen, I am working my way to fitting the turbo up front which seems to me to be a far better solution for this application. It's going to take some work, but its a soltion I'd far rather invest time and effort in than the other options I've got. Regarding the IHI turbo, I am not 100% that it will be making its way back into the car, the others input about hard to get parts or lack of help with parts immediately makes me think a different turbo might be the way forward. It's early days though and no decisions have been made at all. I'll cross that bridge when I get around to turbo fitment. Regarding the electronics, as you may have read I am already set on a more modern set-up, something along the lines of megsquirt or megajolt etc...but I want to retain the awesome Micro Dynamics box and install the newer control unit in there. Just something that appeals to me. Authentic looks with modern control. As for the carbs, I think they'll be staying. It's something that I just feel I need to do for the style/type of car. Period correct and all that. At least I'm going to give it my best shot. ;D Thank you again for all your input, I do really appreciate it. Might be worth looking up bmw turbo setups as they have a similarly canted engine There is a guy somewhere out in the Phillipines that has installed a BMW engine with a turbo (or supercharger, I can't quite remember) into his Elite. I had a look through his thread recently and, even though it's a really neat install, it's not for me. I just feel I need to keep the Lotus engine, especially after all the work that has gone into it previously. If you're referring to looking at the BMW engines as an example/principle thing then I'll certainly look a bit closer at it, but I think I've made some good (theoretical) progress on the turbo set-up after having a chat with a few of the guys over the weekend about some possible ideas for the induction and mounting side of things. More info on that to come when I have some more news. Tonight I hope to update with what I got up to on Sunday. Nothing particularly exciting but there is some very good news and also some news which really made me sad. I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about the sad news because it'll either spell a change in direction for one part of the build, or some serious re-engineering, which I'm not afraid of, but even then there's no guarantee it'll work. Plus there is another factor that could change it all again too....so much so consider it's currently making my brain ache. ;D |
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K5
Part of things
Drives Vauxhall Ampera and Kadett E GT and sometimes camp out in our 1988 Classic Hymer
Posts: 579
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I have seen something like that chassis before, Oh I know at the bottom of the Atlantic, The Titanic!  I had a yellow Eclat 902 back in 96. Too young and too little experience of cars plus no money to keep it going. It was off the road more times than on it. 2 Clutch cables in less than 6 months. Poor design from a Bedford van IIRC. Anyway I think the clutch thrust bearing was seized in the end. It never moved in my ownership again. Cats actually were sleeping in tha back seats!  as someone kindly put a paving slab throught the windscreen! Such a downward spiral of luck with it. Everytime I charged the battery it started first time however. It was a very clean car when I bought it and everything else worked. Another Lotus owner came and thankfully rescued it for £450. Last time I looked it was still taxed. So he obviously restored it. I would love another now I am more experienced. A very brave project you have there. Well done for taking it on. Elites and Eclats should be loved as well as the rest of the Lotus' |
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Retro Classic cars and parts found, bought and sold from Catalunya. PM me for more details.
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Love the camra work in this thread The only work i've ever done on a Lotus was when a friend of my mums brought his Elite over to weld up the rear spring seat had rotten away, he thought you could do it with the body inplace  , told him no way, so we took the body off, left the body at a place up the road from where l had a work shop, we got loads of funny looks pushing the chassis back ;D. Welded it up painted the chassis and fixed some accident damage too, unfortunately we had a storm and a tree fell on the body, luckly no body damage but it did smash up the door. The same bloke brought a renault 4 over for me to weld for MOT but that was so bad it went straight to the breaker yard |
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,719
Club RR Member Number: 11
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wow that bay is tight, and i thought squeezing a turbo into the bay of an Ax was tight!!
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That plenum looks exactly like an Esprit turbo one.
Could it be that someone rebuilt your engine with turbo pistons etc?
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Koos
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That plenum looks exactly like an Esprit turbo one.  That's because it is. ;D Could it be that someone rebuilt your engine with turbo pistons etc? That's what I am hoping to find out by taking the head off at some point and looking a bit closer at the internals/ measuring the stroke etc.... Some shots from Sunday. A pic that will probably get Ed (RatDat) trembling in his boots! The rear suspension.  More specifically the lower fulcrum pin which passes right through the rear hub, lower link and radius arm. It's about 14" long and back in December the two of us spent a good few hours hammering away (aka beating the living s**t out of) to get them out of the rear suspension on my black Elite. The only way to get them out was to remove all the suspension and literally smack the hell out of the pins to drive them out. I was about to tackle the job on my own and I wasn't looking forward to it! Not at all.  Having seen the great condition of the chassis in the black car in compariosn to the chassis in this car....and knowing how stuck the bolts were in the black cars chassis, my expectations were somewhere very far below zero for getting these fulcrum pins out....but it would seem whoever built this car (i.e. did the engine/turbo conversion) also stripped all the suspension down and properly regreased everythign before assembling again. The pins came out with just the gentlest tap of a hammer. No effort required whatsoever. AWESOME! (apologies for the out of focus photo...I was quite literally too excited about the pins coming out so damn easily!)  I was straight on the phone to Ed, "Hi Ed, you're not going to believe this. Remember that day and those fulcrum pins? Well, ........" There was a moment of silence and then came the response, "No way, you lucky ******". It would seem I am! The pins didn't just come out easily because they were greased, they are actually brand new. The ends have some slight surface rust from being out in the elements, but the main shaft of the pin is still factory fresh and shiny under the layer of grease that had been applied. A far cry from the now mangled ones from my black car (Which Ed has very kindly remade for me since ) I was also lucky that the coilover suspension enabled me to remove the springs & shocks without a spring compressor, despite the way they are designed not to be captive as a standalone 'strut' as such (the top of the spring locates and presses against the suspension tower, not a fixed cup on the strut). With the driveshaft undone (a fiddly & time consuming feat in itself, one which saw me adapting a spanner to make the job a little it easier!) there was enough drop for the spring to uncompress from the mount on its own, so all I had to do was remove the top nut from the shock and the lower bolt then out it came. Simple... Despite not needing to, I still removed the whole hub & driveshaft assembly on both sides so that I could check the condition of everything. Again, despite the epic rust of the chassis (everyone who has seen it now has said it's far worse in the flesh that the photos show....FAR worse!) the suspension components are in excellent order. The radius arms are much thinner steel than the chassis yet are nice and solid! I can't work it out?  The UJ's and rear bearings all feel spot on but I will be rebuilding them anyway before getting the car on the road. It would seem that this car was mechanically very up together. Properly looked after....up until the point where it was left in a garden, but Iam sure that's more a victim of circumstance than through choice or deliberate neglect.  So, with all the bits apart, I had some Spax suspension to have a look at. Time to get the wire brushes out, the penertrating oil and lots of brute force to free off those adjusters....  More to come.... |
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While I was busy messing around with suspension, Dave (Butterz) dropped in with his 240 to fit a new exhaust. The old one had literally fallen off near the downpipe and it was sounding very, very loud...but not in a good way. Just NOISE. Lots & lots of NOISE!  Shiny new exhaustage ready to go on.....  .....helped along by lots of this stuff:  I offered to pop over the road and get some drinks and Dave asked if I could get him some Lucozade. Seeing as this was twice the size and nearly half the price of a normal bottle of Lucozade I decided to give it a go. I can happily report it's great, it's cheap and it went down well. A big thumbs up for 'Fluke-ozade'. There's a Dave under there somewhere....happy at the thought of a quieter ride. ;D  Sterotypical 'Area 52' shot....  While I was pulling bits of Lotus apart, James (Jrevillug) was busy swapping the engine on his Imp. He'd changed the shells a week previously to cure the knocking but very soon the knocking reappeared. This meant the crank wasn't playing ball, so an engine swap was the quickest and easiset solution to keep 'Son of James May' on the road.  Luckily James had managed to borrow a good engine from a friend locally, so it enabled him to swap the engine for a good one pretty swiftly. Talking of swift, engine swaps in an Imp seem to be pretty manegable in a day for one person and a trolley jack. And some sockets of course...  With both the rear coilovers out it was time to look at freeing off the adjusters.  As if by some divine intervention (or the car & forethought of the previous owner) the adjusters simply turned without anything other than my bare hands. I somehow have gained the nickname 'spannerhands' because I can often undo tight bolts and nuts with my bare hands, but in this case I didn't even need to summon my inner strength to get the adjusters to turn, they wound down beautifully with very little effort at all. Simply amazing. James and Dave both declared (almost in timed unison) "I hate you" when I showed them how easily the adjusters turned without any form or penetrating oil, wire brushing, heavy leverage nor a plethora of extreme cursing. Straight off the car and wound down to the bottom without even cleaning any of the dirt off!  Despite the slightly crusty external appearance, I am convinced these coilovers are basically brand new. The damper feels perfect, the shaft (under the plastic cover) is impeccably spotless and like new, the damping adjuster turns so nicely....everything about them, bar the external appearance shouts out brand new! Sure there is rust on the surface of the springs, but the two rear springs measured within 1mm of each other. I'm not convinced these have ever seen the road. Just like a lot of the car it would seem!  Unlike the shorter rear springs, the fronts did need a teeny bit of clamping to get the springs out. Luckily the awesome hydraulic spring compressor made light work of it and other than that, they were pretty much the same story as the rears...all the bolts and fulcrum pins came out really easily, they all looked new and the dampers/adjusters were in the same state of 'perfect and fresh' as the rear ones. Obviously I wound them down (by hand again) to the bottom to see what difference it would make to the ride height.  The front springs were checked and again, only 2mm difference in height between the two! Amazing.  I reassembled all four corners with the spring adjusters set to minimum, re-greasing all the fulcrum pins and copper greasing all the nuts in readiness of getting the wheels back on and seeing how the car sits now.  Next up....a mixed bag of emotions and the realisation that there's a lot of work ahead to get the car looking 'right' for how I want it. |
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 864
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Someone, somewhere, definitely loves you Bruce. Can't believe those coilies were in that good a condition, considering how cruddy they looked tucked up in the car.
I do have issues with Dave being happy at the thought of something being quieter however... that Volvo must have been really loud!
Can't wait to find out what else you've got up your sleeve, 'tho I'm getting the impression it's not all good news, in some ways this makes me happy as it mean's you'll just have to come up with a fantastically ingenious way around it, and we'll all get to look at it and go "ooooh". I wish I had your vision!
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sumpcracker
Posted a lot
Yes, I’m still here.
Posts: 1,751
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NO, don't stop there!
I was waiting to see how it sits with them down.
I'm guessing they don't go very low, as I had many old spax/koni coilover units and they usualy go 30mm lower than factory if that. They are different to modern coilovers as the whole "stance" thing didnt exist.
I could be wrong but I recon you will be fitting shorter springs to those shocks.
I'm also assuming the rear camber could be an issue, as in too much when its low.
The good thing is the eclat/excel tuck the wheels in the arches before the ground gets too close to the underside.
More pics!
(ps Jrevillug looks exactly how i imagined him to, just by reading his posts - weird)
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(ps Jrevillug looks exactly how I imagined him to, just by reading his posts - weird) Scary.  |
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That pic could be one of those black edged motivational posters with "Trust" at the bottom  |
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More please Bruce!
don't let this thread die like the Delica thread!!
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Koos
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Someone, somewhere, definitely loves you Bruce. Can't believe those coilies were in that good a condition, considering how cruddy they looked tucked up in the car. I do have issues with Dave being happy at the thought of something being quieter however... that Volvo must have been really loud! Can't wait to find out what else you've got up your sleeve, 'tho I'm getting the impression it's not all good news, in some ways this makes me happy as it mean's you'll just have to come up with a fantastically ingenious way around it, and we'll all get to look at it and go "ooooh". I wish I had your vision! I was absolutely gobsmacked when I found out how nicely it all came apart and how free moving the adjusters were. This really is a car of complete contrast and huge surprises! Daves exhaust (or lack of it) was very loud and seeing as it's his daily he wanted to be able to waft around in comfort without the need to wear ear protectors. I am with him on that, nice exhaust notes can be cool but I also prefer something quiet on my daily. The novelty of a cool sound can soon get annoying when doing the everyday driving....especialy when it wasn't a nice noise to begin with. It's certainly not all good news, but I'm not going to let it defeat me. It'll all become clear as more things happen to the car, but there are a LOT of factors to consider and not all decisions can be made just yet. It's going to be a challenge, but I am determined to triumph over it all. ;D I'm guessing they don't go very low, as I had many old spax/koni coilover units and they usualy go 30mm lower than factory if that. They are different to modern coilovers as the whole "stance" thing didnt exist. I could be wrong but I recon you will be fitting shorter springs to those shocks. I was a little bit gutted to see that the range of adjustment was less that 2" overall with the adjusters set appox halfway, meaning I only had about an inch of drop to gain. As you say, in 'those' days coilovers were a very different thing on a road car than most of the modern ones. I am going to use them as a template to get a set of brand new ones made up at Pro-Tech which will have a LOT more scope for ride height adjustment. I don't want to slam the car to a point where it becomes impractical, but I do want to be able to adjust it a lot more than I currently can. I need to work out how much shorter I want the dampers....and there is also another major factor that could dictate their design but I won't know about that for a little while....and I'm keeping quiet about 'what it is' for the time being until I have more news regarding this area of the build. (ps Jrevillug looks exactly how I imagined him to, just by reading his posts - weird) Scary. Indeed. (as you would say ) Haha...yes, THAT day! The day after Boxing Day, it was cold, we were all tired and just a little bit hungover and those damn fulcrum pins were being a right royal pain to move anwhere, let along being able to force them 14" through the hub and radius arm! it was a great few days though...the best bit of Christmas for me. That pic could be one of those black edged motivational posters with "Trust" at the bottom There's a lot of trust at Area 52. A LOT of trust....it makes things work and makes things happen. ;D More please Bruce! don't let this thread die like the Delica thread!! More on the way. Anyway, the Delica thread isn't dead.....I just haven't had time to do anything with it recently due to it being a lot of work to go back over so many years of photos that were never taken with the intention of making a thread. The story was nine years in the making anyway, so telling it over a matter of a year isn't an issue to me. Patience Mark, patience! |
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when i nod my head you hit it.............. (sorry ;D) |
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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Patience? Dude you know me better than that!
If youve got limited time, can you update threads in this order...
1. Lotus
2. Delica
3. Landy
Thanks :-D
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Koos
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awesome project!!, lotus engine like that would look lovley under the bonnet of my sunbeam too |
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Id be looking at simplifying the lot with a megasquirt or other standalone to control the ignition, thermo fans, boost solenoid etc. That, and id be realllly tempted to go efi as well [have tried the carby-turbo thing before, v-e-r-y temperamental].
[*]
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as someone kindly put a paving slab throught the windscreen! Such a downward spiral of luck with it. Everytime I charged the battery it started first time however. It was a very clean car when I bought it and everything else worked. Another Lotus owner came and thankfully rescued it for £450. Last time I looked it was still taxed. So he obviously restored it. I would love another now I am more experienced.
, told him no way, so we took the body off, left the body at a place up the road from where l had a work shop, we got loads of funny looks pushing the chassis back ;D.
Ax GTi Turbo
