10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Dec 16, 2011 11:07:27 GMT
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I'm planning a project with a friend for next year, it involves shoving a Subaru turbo flat four from an Impreza sti into the back of a Hillman Imp coupe for track days hill climbs and general giggles... I have located a suitable imp, and know someone who breaks Subaru's who can get me an engine for the right price 'anytime' the one debate is the gearbox... The imp is well catered for in the suspension and brake department due to the motorsport/rally links and the engines have a wealth of knowledge.. I'm positive the imp gearbox wont take the neck end of 300bhp and the engine will be staying slung out the back, I've measure it up and it should fit fine, with a little messing and loosing a bit of metal so as i see it my options are: VW transporter (derv box?) Porsche transaxle Possibly a Renault or Audi box running upside down~? obv the Renault or Audi boxes would be cheaper, te porsche ould cost a fortune and i have my doubts as to the strength on the VW van ones... Any thoughts or experiences out there, I particularly concerned with having a nice change, don't want something that jams up and makes fast driving a chore, so a nice easy to set up linkage would be a big plus.. have a racing Imp  |
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Dec 16, 2011 11:26:06 GMT
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Passat MKII was FWD but in-line engine. I had a 1.6 4 cylinder and 2.0 5 cylinder versions so they might be the same as Audi 80 / 100 gearboxes.
Could Volvo 340 / 360 or Porsche 924 / 944 unit be adapted ?
Paul H
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Dec 16, 2011 11:37:17 GMT
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ok bit left of field but Lancia had north south engine's and east west drive, even remember someone put a lancia gamma 2.5 flat four into an imp!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 16, 2011 12:08:21 GMT
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Renault UN1 would probably end up easiest iirc you can get adaptors to a Scooby motor off the shelf.
Matt
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Dec 16, 2011 12:38:18 GMT
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But would'nt a UN1 only be suitable for mid engined rather than rear engined as it's designed for the engine to be in front of the transmission rather than behind. There are plenty of other Renaults that have that layout though like R16 and early 5s.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Dec 16, 2011 12:43:32 GMT
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Yeah that's what i was thinking, would need to be flipped otherwise you'd have a bloody fast fwd car with rear wheel steering, and much as i like a laugh that's a bit much for me!
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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Dec 16, 2011 12:54:49 GMT
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What do the mega quick Beetle drag racers use?
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Dec 16, 2011 13:29:03 GMT
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There's an outfit in Oz (maybe NZ?) that make a kit to convert the Subaru transaxle for a rear-engine 2wd setup. Not cheap though. www.subarugears.com/VW boxes should be quite strong - but I don't know how strong. One thing to consider: The Imp handles nicely as standard because the engine is so light (~70kg all-in). The Subaru engine, while shorter, is significantly heavier. The 1.6 only weighs 78kg, but the 2.5 weighs 135kg - a fairly big increase. I'm sure you know this, but don't want you to be disappointed. www.prekas.nl/subaru.htmOne option might be a Rover K series - very light and 160bhp as standard (VVC or 1.8 Turbo). You can get a reliable 300bhp from a turbocharged 1.8 - although you'd still have the box to consider, and the K would require rear parcel shelf choppage. |
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Dec 16, 2011 13:47:09 GMT
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What do the mega quick Beetle drag racers use? As far as I can tell the quick ones use VW bus boxes and the VERY quick ones use Porsche boxes... There's an outfit in Oz (maybe NZ?) that make a kit to convert the Subaru transaxle for a rear-engine 2wd setup. Not cheap though. www.subarugears.com/VW boxes should be quite strong - but I don't know how strong. One thing to consider: The Imp handles nicely as standard because the engine is so light (~70kg all-in). The Subaru engine, while shorter, is significantly heavier. The 1.6 only weighs 78kg, but the 2.5 weighs 135kg - a fairly big increase. I'm sure you know this, but don't want you to be disappointed. www.prekas.nl/subaru.htmOne option might be a Rover K series - very light and 160bhp as standard (VVC or 1.8 Turbo). You can get a reliable 300bhp from a turbocharged 1.8 - although you'd still have the box to consider, and the K would require rear parcel shelf choppage. That all looks pretty good, though I doubt i'll strech to the custom lot... re the weight, yeah I had looked into that, but it'll be stripped and caged, you can loose weight from the subaru engines, (power steering, ac, leccy water pump ect ect) I'm feckin heavy and they'll be a fuel cell right up front, and worst come to worst theres always a bag of cement kicking around! Also the subaru engine is 'non negotiable' the noise the size and the strength all win for me |
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Last Edit: Dec 16, 2011 13:48:36 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Dec 16, 2011 14:00:03 GMT
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Also the subaru engine is 'non negotiable' the noise the size and the strength all win for me Fair enough - hope the project goes as well as the car will. ;D |
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Dec 16, 2011 14:50:03 GMT
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Another option would be to flip the diff, inside the gearbox itself. maybe you can do that with the subaru gearbox? I think you can do it with an audi one but I may be remembering incorrectly!
I have read that VW bus gearboxes can take upto 150bhp but I would imagine that 300bhp would break them!
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Last Edit: Dec 16, 2011 14:50:39 GMT by trogdor
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Dec 16, 2011 15:26:24 GMT
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Another option would be to flip the diff, inside the gearbox itself. maybe you can do that with the subaru gearbox? I think you can do it with an audi one but I may be remembering incorrectly! Thats what the guys in NZ do, its not as simple as it sounds though, they make a new ring gear and pinion to match the change in offset when flipped. I'd go with a t25 gearbox with an RJES bellhousing. Its a tried and tested route, you may want to check out brickyard forum to get a better idea of what is needed. www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/This guys does gearbox rebuilds and upgrades for subaru applications www.aidantalbot.com/live/parts/A lot fo people use a standard box with the 2.5 quad cam but the gearing isn't too good, but you'll have different issues with a imp any way. Remember the van gearboxes are designed for a 2 ton block rather than a lightweight car so are pretty strong in comparison. |
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Last Edit: Dec 16, 2011 15:31:06 GMT by damien4884
1977 datsun 810 180b estate |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 16, 2011 15:36:43 GMT
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You can bolt the CROWNwheel into the other side of the UN1 to make it suitable for a rear engined application Renault did the same mod for the GTA's.
Matt
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Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
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Dec 16, 2011 18:39:21 GMT
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the Vw box is the one to use, ideally the aircooled t25. that way all you need is the bellhousing RJES. they will be strong enough. the weight of a t25 rarely blows them, and they are cheap and plentiful still.
Like stealthstyle says un1 can have CROWNwheel flip. this is much like the porsche 914-6 did.
Audi/ vw passat or the original subaru box could be run inverted. ideally welding up drain and fill holes and tapping new ones. if your lucky the subaru box might have a nice bellhousing that might allow that
buy what you can cheap and then worry about fitting it. it will go in somehow
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Dec 16, 2011 19:14:28 GMT
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UN1 can be either mid or rear mounted .You just need to flip the diff over .GTA is rear engined UN1 as MATT says .I did once have a rebuild of a rebuild to do and the owner said the box had been rebuilt.Well yes it had but to std spec and 5 reverse gears .
Now I check
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Last Edit: Dec 16, 2011 19:16:22 GMT by ratmangta
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Dec 16, 2011 22:42:38 GMT
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What's the linkage ona UN1? rods or cables? what vehicle can i find one in? Please don't say I have to find a Renault 30 V6 being broken!
Thanks for all the info so far really helps!
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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I've got a mk5 Passat 1.8t box lying around if you want any measurements (transaxle type, the same as an audi A4). It's what'll be going in my mini eventually, I'm mid mounting the engine, not rear so I'm not sure what you could do with flipping the diff, but I can tell you the diff is nowhere near central in terms of height or width, so flipping the whole box would mount it really quite high. I also seriously doubt how long a box like that would last running upside down, the oil systems aren't made to work the wrong way up. They can take the power, and the shift linkage would be very easy, but I get the impression it'd be easier to mod the Subaru box and use that than use an Audi/Passat one, as you'll have the same issues, but with a fitting bell-housing.
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Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
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Dec 17, 2011 11:33:39 GMT
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rods, and a reverve cable. Have removed a un1 from an espace which u can borrow. remember than the imp has a rolling radius limit so as such gearing needs to be considered. if doing hillclimbs maybe a 4cyl box, if for road a diesel box.
As for problems with inverting boxes there is no reason for it being a issue. check seals, but so long as oil is at a sensible level it will be fine. some boxes with top shift rods which would now be running upside down may need a little bit of thought plenty of gt40s run upsidedown 911 boxes with no issues.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:14:16 GMT
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Owning a t25, I would disagree that the boxes are anything like strong! Prices for 5 speed boxes are £450 + for a half decent one, because they are all knackered.
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Dec 18, 2011 10:34:30 GMT
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Is there any reason you couldnt just use the 4x4 box from the subaru and machine off the rear output shaft using just the front drive flanges?
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