bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 15, 2011 12:33:27 GMT
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Fitted my halogen headlamp conversion yesterday and whilst I was at it I sorted out the earth wire than had misplaced from the dash warning light cluster. I also noticed that some numpty (me in a rush) had fitted the voltage stabiliser wires the wrong way around causing the fuel and temp gauge to play up.
Anyway on the way home I turned on the heater fan which for the first time in months is working and after about 3 seconds it started pulsing on and off. Whilst it was doing it the fuel and temperature gauge started to fluctuate. Turned it off and back to normal.
Don't get why as the two circuits are not connected
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Nov 15, 2011 12:53:47 GMT
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Not SUPPOSED to be connected....
It sounds to me like you have managed to wire the heater through the instrument voltage stabilizer. On an older car this is a mechanical item, it's just a bimetallic strip with a coil of wire around it - if the current through the coil rises too far, the bimetal bends and breaks the circuit, then cools and makes it again. You don't normally notice this pulsing effect because the gauges are very low current and also slow to react.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 15, 2011 14:07:04 GMT
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Thats one of the things I thought but the heater wiring has not been disturbed. It runs a seperate and direct feed from the fuse box although does run off the same fuse. It also only happens when the fan is set to the faster of its two speeds.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Nov 15, 2011 20:20:37 GMT
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surely if its running from the same fuse then its now the same circuit? and scary's relpy very much still stands???
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'90 Audi B3 Coupe 2.3 Auto [gone] '92 Audi S4 Avant 2.2 AAN Turbo Auto [gone] '93 Audi 80 Avant 1.9TDi [gone] '96 Audi A4 Avant 2.6 Quattro [gone] '97 VW T4 1.9td LWB [gone] '03 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi [gone] '05 VW T5 Shuttle LWB 1.9TDi '15 VW Caddy Maxi Kombi 1.6TDi
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Nov 15, 2011 22:13:07 GMT
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Don't forget, we're dealing with a guy of 12+ years auto electrical experience here , if he says the two circuits are not connected, they must not be! PHAKT.
Maybe the temp gauge (which you don't really need anyway) could be sort of connected up to the heater fan and the scale recalibrated to make it into a sort of open loop in-car cabin thermometer.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Nov 15, 2011 22:15:29 GMT
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I've just read all this again, has he managed to use the the voltage stabiliser for the gauges, as a flasher unit on his blower motor? To be fair thats quite a feat if so.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Nov 15, 2011 22:34:57 GMT
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I've just read all this again, has he managed to use the the voltage stabiliser for the gauges, as a flasher unit on his blower motor? To be fair thats quite a feat if so. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D To be honest that does sound like whats happening here. Especially as it only happens on the highest setting. Whats also quite worrying is your instrument cluster shares a fuse with the blower motor (if a component shares a fuse its generally considered it runs on the same circuit). Most blower motors i deal with are fused to 25-30 amps, an instrument cluster should only need a 10 or 15 amp fuse. I'd have another check of the wiring if i was you.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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the whole car only has 2 fuses and the wiring at the fuse box hasn't been touched. Only 3 wires have been disturbed. The earth wire to the warning light cluster and the two wires to the regulator. I haven't been near the fuse box other than to pop in a new fuse or the blower switch which is miles away from the stabiliser.
I'll get a scan of the wiring diagram up when I get back home tonight
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Do a drop test on the blower. Sounds like its earthing through the instrument cluster.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Make sure you drop it on something soft - you wouldn't want to oval the case ;D
Seriously though, either the live side is feeding throught the VR or as rev says the earth side of the blower is only connected to the clocks and not a true earth. Rule out the VR by putting the blower motor on and unplugging the voltage regulator. Also, make sure the fuse is actually providing power - a common lucas fault is where the fuse is dead, but someone has run an extra live to make something work and that then feeds all the other circuits through the common connection at the fusebox....
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 16, 2011 13:59:48 GMT
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Thanks for that I will check. On the way out this morning I discovered another symptom. If the ignition is on but engine switched off then the fan works normally, with the engine actually running it pulses. So I'm wondering if the fault is connected to the alternator conversion which is wired in the close vicinity of the fuse box.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Onne
Part of things
Posts: 822
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Nov 16, 2011 14:17:55 GMT
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Maybe get an autoleccy to have a look at it before it all goes up in a cloud of smoke?
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1990 Mercedes W126 300SE 1997 Mercedes W140 S320L
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Nov 16, 2011 14:32:15 GMT
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But....
Alternator raises the voltage, and current is proportional to voltage (assuming resistance to be constant) so it doesn't really prove anything! It could just be that with the engine off and the alt not charging the heater fan doesn't draw enough current to switch the VR.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 16, 2011 14:52:02 GMT
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I wont be using the booster fan until I find the problem. To be honest the wiring behind the dash is an absolute mess! Full of scotchlocks and I must have pulled out 100 dead end floating wires. I might strip the whole lot out and rewire it following the wiring diagram. In fact have a pic of the dash when I got it now which wire do I cut to disarm that bomb sir? I don't think even lucas wiring came out of the factory looking like that! Fan switch is the top leftmost switch on the dash and voltage stabiliser bolts to the back of the speedometer.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Nov 16, 2011 14:54:26 GMT
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Maybe get an autoleccy to have a look at it before it all goes up in a cloud of smoke? Good idea, though I suspect when he sees this wiring loom he’ll feel like a bricklayer being asked to ‘have a look’ at Hiroshima in September 1945
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 16, 2011 15:00:27 GMT
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But.... Alternator raises the voltage, and current is proportional to voltage (assuming resistance to be constant) so it doesn't really prove anything! It could just be that with the engine off and the alt not charging the heater fan doesn't draw enough current to switch the VR. True enough Ohms law and all. Of course resistance wont stay constant as it changes with temperature and we all know electric wires heat up. But I can't see that being the problem unless the wiring is too thin and breaking down with heat. Going by the ammeter alone the alternator does kick out more current that the dynamo did and the wiring was upgraded to compensate. When you start the car you see it charge slightly for a bit before dropping back to showing a very slight charge after a couple of seconds. The dynamo used to be discharging on tickover and only showing a charge when on the move
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Nov 16, 2011 15:05:53 GMT
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Maybe get an autoleccy to have a look at it before it all goes up in a cloud of smoke? Good idea, though I suspect when he sees this wiring loom he’ll feel like a bricklayer being asked to ‘have a look’ at Hiroshima in September 1945 Sorry BL, but this has made me ;D
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Nov 16, 2011 15:12:31 GMT
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Resistance changes in adequately-sized copper wire (ie wire that's not starting to glow) are at least two orders of magnitude below the difference between the off-charge and on-charge battery voltages. In other words, it makes no difference.
Yes, an alternator will charge at idle when a dynamo often won't. And the 'spike' in charge current after start-up is the alternator replacing the electricity used to turn the engine over. So it sounds as though the alternator is doing what you'e expect it to do.
However, you are clearly getting interaction between the voltage stabiliser and the heater fan. It is entirely possible that a poor connection in the fusebox is to blame (the fuse retaining clips are normally rivetted to the terminals, and these can work loose over the years). Is there anything else running from that fuse? If so, does it also experience problems? If not, then somehow you've got the heater fan connected into the instrument circuit - although having seen the wiring I can't say I'm enormously surprised...
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 16, 2011 15:49:04 GMT
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Pretty much all of that wiring in those pics has been stripped out.
From the owners manual. Both fuses are 35amp
Fuse 1 Horns and Courtesy light circuits
Fuse 2 Voltage stabiliser feeding fuel and temperature gauge circuits. Wiper Motor Heater Motor Flasher unit and associated circuits 11RA Night dimming relay for indicators and stop lamps. Stop Lamp.
That really is quite a lot of things on one fuse. The only other thing that I think id be able to see the fault in is the windscreen wipers. Which once on operate normally i.e. non intermitent. Although there is sometimes and not always a slight delay between flicking the switch and the wipers working about 1s.
Wiring diagram is scanning now so will put it up ASAP
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Nov 16, 2011 16:02:10 GMT
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1 wiring diagram as promised its pretty simple or at least from the diagram the wiring on the car should be. and the legend so that you can read the above diagram easier.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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