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I know we sort of fell out of love with the tell me about threads. So before I start.. as is the way.. Right, so that's a random car to get us kicked off. I've read with a lot of interest about Area52 and the crazy things you kids get up to. I was pondering, it seems that every "area" should have its own Area 52, but how do you make it work? It's been my expereince in the past, that club houses and workshops usually end up with loads of people saying they'll get involved and then never actually doing it, usually leaving some poor sap out of pocket in the process. At the mo, I've taken on a small unit in order to store and work on a few of my projects, however there's not really enough room or kit to do an A52 style thing, otherwise I'd get a load of folks in the area in to do mad things to cars. So how'd you go about setting it up?, was it an existing unit that's used at weekends for these shenanigans?, do people "chip in" for tools, rent and supplies?
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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MysteryMachine Bruce fronts the money for it, and in theory people chipping in on play weekends should cover some of the bills/rent. In reality it doesn't come close.
Matt
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Has David been shining the RR logo into the sky Batman stylee? Nice to see some old names back.
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Whenever I hear this song, I think of A52 What's he building in there?
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011 9:57:37 GMT by Soopahfly
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Oct 31, 2011 10:02:12 GMT
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I had a very lengthy roadtrip conversation with bruce about this, and we more or less concluded there is no magic formula. its simply down to the type of people you happen to have in your area, and how motivated, dedicated, and involved they are. and A52 works because bristol seems to be a bit of a hotbed for this type of person. in reality to only takes maybe 3 or 4 people to keep interest high- get half a dozen regulars and youre sorted. but essex/suffolk on the other hand... its bloody hard work to get more than a dozen people to a clubnight once a month, even though theres hundreds of people into retros round here. it just seems people arent that motivated, or don't want to be involved.
I know A52 has now grown beyond its local area, even verging on international now, but without there being a small core of people willing to get off their asses, put their money where there mouth is(the biggest one here being bruce himself) and actually do rather than procrastinate, things never get off the ground.
as you say, its difficult to make a democratic 'clubhouse' work. too many naysayers, people who are all talk and no action, or blatant freeloaders will soon put an end to it all. personally I think A52 works cos its one person who 'runs' it, or 'calls the shots', whatever you want to call it. it removes a lot of the arguments and difficulties involved in something like this.
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011 10:06:58 GMT by Dez
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Oct 31, 2011 10:07:17 GMT
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I had a very lengthy roadtrip conversation with bruce about this, and we more or less concluded there is no magic formula. its simply down to the type of people you happen to have in your area, and how motivated, dedicated, and involved they are. and A52 works because bristol seems to be a bit of a hotbed for this type of person. essex/suffolk on the other hand... its bloody hard work to get more than a dozen people to a clubnight once a month, even though theres hundreds of people into retros round here. it just seems people arent that motivated, or don't want to be involved. I know A52 has now grown beyond its local area, even verging on international now, but without there being a small core of people willing to get off their asses, put their money where there mouth is(the biggest one here being bruce himself) and actually do rather than procrastinate, things never get off the ground. as you say, its difficult to make a democratic 'clubhouse' work. too many naysayers, people who are all talk and no action, or blatant freeloaders will soon put an end to it all. personally I think A52 works cos its one person who 'runs' it, or 'calls the shots', whatever you want to call it. it removes a lot of the arguments and difficulties involved in something like this. I was suspicious that'd be the case. Unfortunately I'm not in a financial position to front the costs of a large unit like that, otherwise I'd do it and invite people round. I've recenly become involved with a local VW Klub that actually do really well on the meet front, and at shows, but everyone has their own projects going on and they've all made arrangements to store/work on them too. Unfortunately, Peterborough/Stamford seems to be a very difficult place to find people that want to "do" rather than talk about doing.. and yes, I know I've been guilty of having great ideas and not seeing them to completion, but usually when I can get people involved in things that want to make it work, it will. However.. an Area52 (East Midlands Division) at the moment will probably remain a dream.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Oct 31, 2011 10:07:52 GMT
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A52 works cos its one person who 'runs' it I'd say that's about the size of it. You need a Bruce.
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Oct 31, 2011 10:33:30 GMT
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Thanks for the comments guys - it's a difficult one to quantify and I haven't got the time right this minute to explain it all...but I will do later today if I can find the time. Is it expensive? VERY! I can honsetly say that nothing has ever cost me so much time, money and effort. But that hasn't stopped me and I don't regret it, not for one single minute. A bit later I will try and run through all the aspects of running the unit in real terms of what it costs, but also WHY I have continued with it....most of all it's because of the people and the fun times that simply wouldn't have happened without that workspace. As a few of you will have seen, yesterday another RR member (Perry) kindly offered a car up for free and luckily (and through his generosity) it's heading to Area 52 to become the next group build project car. I really hope we can make it as special as the ideas that have been discussed. I am confident we will make it happen ;D For those that don't know too much about Area 52, here is a copy of a brief visual summary that I posted up yesterday in Perry's 'for sale' thread: Talking of which, what with working flat out on my house, my Sisters house, buying a new daily, arranging a swap with one of my other cars etc...I've kinda neglected the Area 52 thread of late. My bad! I will update ASAP and in the meantime, anyone thinking of coming along, the next proper Playweekend will be on the 11th to 13th November. 2 weeks away.... Get yourself ready for an awesome weekend of automotive mayhem!
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Oct 31, 2011 10:55:56 GMT
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I haven't got the time right this minute to explain it all.... Guys. Workshop. Madness. Projects. Coolness. Bruce.
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Oct 31, 2011 11:11:48 GMT
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I've tried a few times up here. Loads of people are "defo in" until I find a workshop and need to raise a deposit on it. Then its radio silence.
I know of 2 or 3 potential units would be ace for this sort of thing Nottm and Leics.
If I got a decent paid job I might even front the costs (I need somewhere not-at-home to spray...) but it would work on my rules only on that basis.
With the economy in the toilet it should be ever easier to find vacant units, the problem is finding people who still have money they are prepared to put in...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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Oct 31, 2011 11:29:27 GMT
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I'm in a rare position where I could host something like Area52 fairly easily but I don't for several reasons. Trust is the main factor, I/we have a lot to lose at my place and I don't want to take the risk - all it takes is one bad apple to spoil everything and it's not just my stuff at risk. A52 has the right idea in that you just can't turn up but for me it would have to go to invite only to people I directly know. You may think I'm being paranoid but our farm is currently on lock down because of a spate of local break ins. The other main reason is time, I couldn't commit to running regular weekends. What Bruce has done with A52 is brilliant and very unique, I can't see many others pulling it off successfully
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i ETC
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,614
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Oct 31, 2011 13:09:53 GMT
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As has been said its a combination of things that make it work. Availability of units and cost is a big reason it doesn't work inside the M25 or in the south east surrounding the M25 in my experience. Also vision is a big thing, if you have a dedicated few mates (deeper than just car related mates) then the trust thing is less of an issue, but ultimately it still needs a visionary to put the time in and throw their weight behind and money. As said Bristol seems to have enough people in range but ultimately its down to Bruce's accommodating nature, vision, passion, energy and financial backing ;D Its why he gets voted for and wins the community spirit prizes etc and deservedly so. I have looked into the possibility of running something similar here but with the backing of my church and making it a community and youth type project but ultimately its time and money of which i have restraints and pressure on
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Oct 31, 2011 13:12:21 GMT
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If you think of something like The Nightmares (and other custom/hot rod clubs) I think you can see something is possible on a smaller scale. The Scandinavian scene seems to have similar ideas where people share skills, space, tools etc. and each work on the others cars. I was hoping to have some semblance of a set of "ways to make these things work" come out that we could then push the Garage Scene area a bit more with,.. but there are only a handful of collectives. Collectives seem to be the best way to get something done, the problem is someone needs to front the time to sort out the space, and probably some money as well. It can all get a bit complex and political and might end up blowing up if someone is consistently out of pocket. What Bruce has done with A52 is magnificent, I would hope that it would inspire more garage share/collective working, but so far it hasn't so much, maybe because each collective needs someone to step up and organise it in the way Bruce has done for A52. Has David been shining the RR logo into the sky Batman stylee? Nice to see some old names back. For various reasons I think the forum has got really back on track over the past few weeks, and I think it has shown in the quality of post and return of various members.
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011 13:13:24 GMT by HoTWire
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,416
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Oct 31, 2011 13:32:21 GMT
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We have a kinda collective up here.
In reality its more like a couple of members putting up with me as I hamfistedly try to work on my cars...... ;D . But its always a good laugh and I have learnt a lot from the members involved.
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011 13:33:09 GMT by qwerty
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Oct 31, 2011 15:22:20 GMT
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I had a very small scale NI version going up until winter '10. Unfortunately the guys drifted off a bit for various reasons. (They were genuine reasons which I wont specify or condemn.) You do need a central space with someone holding it though - trying to arrange one meet at another guys place ended in a total non-event. There was one resurgence of the old 'crew' when I moved into my new work unit in one day flat (3 sheds of tools and parts and approx 15 cars moved in one day!) so the bonds remain even if the actual meets don't. A real pity is that is in a couple of weeks one guy who would have been an asset to the group and would have revitalised it is emigrating to Oz. It is important to note that I know and trust all the guys that came, and all were welcome to use, and borrow, my tools.
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Lopez
East Midlands
Posts: 867
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Oct 31, 2011 15:27:27 GMT
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I've tried a few times up here. Loads of people are "defo in" until I find a workshop and need to raise a deposit on it. Then its radio silence. I know of 2 or 3 potential units would be ace for this sort of thing Nottm and Leics. If I got a decent paid job I might even front the costs (I need somewhere not-at-home to spray...) but it would work on my rules only on that basis. With the economy in the toilet it should be ever easier to find vacant units, the problem is finding people who still have money they are prepared to put in... It's the unit that's the chief stumbling block. People generally can't afford (or won't justify) regular expenditure on rent for storage/workspace any more than a few minutes from their property unless they absolutely have to, or unless it generates them some income. Once you have the unit and a "core" of regulars things fall into place around that a lot easier. It's the financial/logistical aspect of putting in to a monthly shared space for an indefinite amount of time that was always the stumbling block we hit when we tried to do this sort of thing years ago when I lived in Wales. We had cars, we had owners, we had tools, we had skillz, we had time, but we also all had our own garages and driveways and things like that, so it seemed a lot of outlay (rent/heating/power/security) for what was in essence a "den" It's a shame because like you say, an East Mids version would be great!
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Oct 31, 2011 16:21:46 GMT
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I've done various days/evenings with a few mates working on each others cars on my parents farm, but I can't always have access to the workshop due to my old mans vintage tractors taking priority mostly. I think trust is a major point as mentioned above, every RR person I've met has been great, bu sadly not everyone in this world is & not sure my folks would want too many people they'd never met around the yard.
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Oct 31, 2011 17:06:15 GMT
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I'd absolutely love something like this down S/E Essex, but as posted a few times above unfortunately it comes down to trust and commitment in the end...internet mates are just that..internet mates.....and humans being humans etc.... I once shared a unit with a couple of mates, great for a while, then the other two had a lovers spat..one moved out taking tools that weren't his..ended up with fisticuffs in the yard between them. Then the mate that was left bought another mate (met on the internet) over for a few hours who was a complete $$$$er....surprisingly enough a few weeks later and the unit was robbed of nearly everything of any value..turns out it was related to this newly introduced idiot.... Devestating is not the word for it...turning up one morning to find the doors open and everything gone is not a nice feeling. Its taken me years to get some nice tools together again. (Mig welder/Mandrel Bender/chopsaw/handtools etc all taken and have had to be bought again) Sounds like a proper moan this but its not meant to..the idea is fantastic and Bruce has proved this...but there are SO many pitfalls...maybe I'm a little shaded by previous experiences of internet "mates". I've never met Bruce in person but the guy must be one in a million to do this..... BIG BIG RESPECT and I hope the guys that use Bruces generosity see that he is putting a massive amount of trust in them not to mess it up for him.
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ILIKELURKINGME
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Brian Damaged
West Midlands
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 9,555
Club RR Member Number: 33
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Oct 31, 2011 17:26:40 GMT
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internet mates are just that..internet mates.....and humans being humans etc.... There's the rub. There are a bunch of guys off here who ceased to be 'internet mates' a while back, I'd class them as close friends now even though some of us are a good few hours' drive apart. By happy coincidence a lot of them are involved with A52 so even though it's a 150-mile round trip for me it's ALWAYS worth the effort/fuel. This track (and the sentiments espoused therein) always reminds me of Area 52. I've always fancied doing a new video down in Bristol to go with this. ;D
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,614
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Oct 31, 2011 18:00:51 GMT
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Sir Damaged I think that's very true, there must be a point some time when internet mates convert to being mates but it's always an interesting situation and totally understandable when it comes to trust. As for A52 being worth the effort, it always is my Bi Annual pilgrimmage is always alot of fun
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