ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 21, 2011 19:02:17 GMT
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The Pug went in for its MOT today and it failed . Almost all of the fixes are simple bar two of them. Basically the drop links catch the rear of the knuckle joints slightly. On one side we spaced it out with washers and ditched the nyloc in an attempt to stop it catching. It still does slightly. It has done this since we had the car on its original dampers. With the coilovers there is no difference. Bar bending the ARB Drop links (which I guess would be obvious in an MOT what else do you recommend? If it is any help, the drop links were changed shortly before we bought the car, and I believe they are pattern items. A friend bought some new items for it, but they were longer than the original units and had M12 threads on them meaning they would not go through the damper body, hence the originals remained on the car (They were Q-Drive items and on the box it says they fit a 205 and a Citroen Visa).
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Last Edit: Sept 22, 2011 8:01:54 GMT by ChasR
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Sept 21, 2011 19:10:22 GMT
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just remove the arb
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1995 mk3 cavalier 1.8i 1972 1200 beetle 2010 1.2 fiat 500 "sometime's" 2000 suzuki gsxr 600 srad
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Sept 21, 2011 19:16:12 GMT
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^ you can't, it would fail for the ARB being missing instead.
Which knuckle joint is it catching? A photo might help here...
It does sound like the links are too long though.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
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Sept 21, 2011 19:28:49 GMT
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^ you can't, it would fail for the ARB being missing instead. Which knuckle joint is it catching? A photo might help here... It does sound like the links are too long though. I know you know your shizzle but that doesn't ring true to me ? Surely if it's removed completey then it's removed from the equation ?
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Sept 21, 2011 20:56:27 GMT
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I'd pass and advise without an ARB. Its not used for location on the 205 so its not gonna make it dangerous to drive. Cant speak for every mot tester though. I cant see how bending the droplinks is going to solve it. Stupid question but are the legs on the right way round?
EDIT: Its beeen over ten years since i worked on a 205.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 22, 2011 7:52:16 GMT
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I did think about removing the ARB although I believe on the 205 it may possibly be a subframe off job :s. Without a load of spacers it catches the rear of the knuckle joint almost all of the time. It does not affect the steering too much bar feeling/hearing them catch. On the side I spaced it out on (about 6 generic M10 spacers) it does not catch bar when the car is raised and then it will scrape the head of the damper clamp bolt slightly). I have no pictures of the issue (I will not until tonight (picked the car up last night)) but when I get to a PC I shall see if I can get some photos of the front setup loaded up. EDIT: pics of the setup. I cannot load them up since I am typing from a mobile. s9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/randhawac/Cars/205/AFAIK, the bodies are on the right way around with the drop link mounts pointing towards the rear.
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Last Edit: Sept 22, 2011 7:59:56 GMT by ChasR
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Sept 22, 2011 8:56:24 GMT
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How about a visit to the scrapyard to look for drop links off other models that are shaped a bit differently? You might get lucky & find some that have the right sized joints & go straight on.
I was mucking about with a car the other day that had a rear mounted roll bar & drop links that located to the strut which were slightly "U" shaped in order to clear the steering knuckle rather than straight like yours.
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Sept 22, 2011 11:49:07 GMT
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^ you can't, it would fail for the ARB being missing instead. Which knuckle joint is it catching? A photo might help here... It does sound like the links are too long though. I know you know your shizzle but that doesn't ring true to me ? Surely if it's removed completey then it's removed from the equation ? 2.4G - 1g anti-roll bars and linkages missing where one is fitted as standard.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Sept 22, 2011 12:28:59 GMT
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I know you know your shizzle but that doesn't ring true to me ? Surely if it's removed completey then it's removed from the equation ? 2.4G - 1g anti-roll bars and linkages missing where one is fitted as standard. That is interesting! My Audi passed its MoT a few weeks ago and that's pretty blatent as the mounts, bushes & bolts are still there.. 99% of (proper) Lowriders don't run ARBs at all
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Sept 22, 2011 13:18:37 GMT
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It is a valid reason for rejection if the tester wants to get picky but it can also class as a modification. A lot of vans with air suspension do away with the anti roll bar. At the end of the day the benefit of the doubt should be given to the presenter. That's why I would just pass and advise.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Sept 22, 2011 13:35:02 GMT
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I checked the computer this afternoon, it doesn't give any scope to advise on this one - either it is there or it isn't! Can't be having "anti-roll bar slightly missing" so your choices (as tester) are limited to failing because ARB is not present when one was fitted originally, or ignoring it and passing. Writing manual advisories for stuff that should have failed just gives VOSA ammunition against you.
Hardcore - I'm sure that many testers are of the opinion that if it's removed it doesn't count but that isn't what the manual says......
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Sept 22, 2011 13:47:41 GMT
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Also, looking at the design of a 205 drop link, it is possible to fit the top balljoint back to front.... this would make it catch the knuckle on the back of the strut. The joint should sit behind the strut with the threaded portion facing forwards.
edit - I just looked at your pics, you do have it the right way round...
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Sept 22, 2011 14:05:48 GMT
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Ta for the clarifications SoC - interesting indeeds!
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Sept 22, 2011 14:39:19 GMT
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I would advise front suspension modified rather than arb missing. If vosa wanted to use that as ammunition against me then they'd be welcome but somehow I can't really see it happening. Back to the OP, I think there's a possibility you may gave a 309 arb on there.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Sept 22, 2011 14:46:41 GMT
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That's fair enough, and for what it's worth I tend to agree with you IF it is modified suspension. I'm just saying that if I failed a car for the ARB catching the strut and it came back for retest without the ARB but otherwise still standard I'd have to fail it again.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 22, 2011 18:53:23 GMT
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That's fair enough, and for what it's worth I tend to agree with you IF it is modified suspension. I'm just saying that if I failed a car for the ARB catching the strut and it came back for retest without the ARB but otherwise still standard I'd have to fail it again. Whilst I agree on that directive would you have failed a car for catching the strut? It is always great to see a discussion on RR. Even on small points you learn a fair few things, and I guess that is what it is all about in this game . Eventually I ended up an MOT. Anyway how did I get there? I decided to have another stab at it. For argument's sake I thought I would try the new drop links again (after two years of lying around, there was no chance that we could return them, and I saw ECP and others specified the same drop links for the 205), but this time remove the existing drop links completely. In the ARB end, the new item fitted perfectly, not loosely unlike the old items (I guess they were tightened up alot to not show this). I then took the evasive step to drill the Drop link mounting hole in the strut casing slightly. It seemed silly to do so (after all, the original dampers had the same sized hole), but I thought I would see how I got on. Anyway, there is no more catching at all! They do run very close I admit to the knuckle joint/damper clamp bolt, but they do not rub in the slightest. They are a little longer and seem a little tougher (rod that is) than the old items (you can see in the pics where the old items were rubbing on the knuckle joint (rust in the middle of the rod section on both drop links). It was a silly mistake. The fact that the stock damper did not take the top balljoint as well as the new casing I reckon is what threw me off, and made me think that all was not well. The PO did get the garage to renew them as well not long before I bought the car. Oddly enough, the old ones look alot like the ones on my 106. Another thing. It is the first time since we have owned the car that the suspension has been creak free when turning... Woops.
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Last Edit: Sept 22, 2011 18:55:07 GMT by ChasR
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Sept 22, 2011 19:43:05 GMT
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All's well that ends well then. From memory I can only recall one length of droplink on a 205 but like I said it has been over ten years since I was doing Peugeot. And yes I would have defiantly failed it for rubbing.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Sept 22, 2011 19:59:29 GMT
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^ yup me too. Anything catching anything on the lock to lock check is going to fail. Glad it's sorted
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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