bl1300
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Sept 2, 2011 20:18:39 GMT
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What are peoples thoughts on the benefits of running a vehicle on LPG.
I gather that it burns a lot cleaner and as result engines don't wear as fast. But as its a much lower octane you loose some bhp and use more of it. Not really a problem when you consider the price difference. Then of course if you travel on a ferry you have to declare that the vehicle is so equipped and some firms can be funny about it.
LPG also needs to be inspected by a qualified proffesional but I'm not sure if that means that home fits are allowed as long as they are then inspected afterwards.
My own experience was with a 4.3 V8 Range Rover that we converted. It had to be started on petrol and could only be switched over to gas when the engine was fully warmed up. We had a little adaptor that fitted into the filler that was forever getting lost. On the good side we didn't notice any real power loss and the car was then doing the equivalent of 34mpg on petrol.
whats your view on running vehicles on LPG?
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Sept 2, 2011 20:25:46 GMT
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It's higher octane but slower burning.
It doesn't have to be inspected, and most qualified professionals are inept monkey-spankers.
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Koos
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bryn
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Sept 2, 2011 20:28:00 GMT
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I ran four different LPG equipped vehicles ranging from a Volvo 240 through to an M6 engined E28. Not once did I ever have to produce a certificate of fitment/inspection or was asked for one. So although you may not need one, it's always worth making sure the kit is fitted properly, insulated P clips are used for the lines and there are no obvious bodges.
LPG has a lower calorific value, so you use approx 10% more and lose approx 10% power. Those are rough figures which varied from car to car.
I gave up on it in the end as I turned to more modern turbo diesel engines capable of 40mpg +. I used LPG so as to allow me daily usage of stupid vehicles.
If I bought another car with it fitted, then no worries but I wouldn't go to the hassle of converting again myself. Filling stations are plentiful, although I did have to plan ahead sometimes with the amount of miles I covered.
Actually, my Land Rover hot rod runs solely on LPG... Just remember I still have one that does ;D
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Volvo, Buggy, Discovery and an old tractor.
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Sept 2, 2011 20:31:07 GMT
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I once bought a 205 GTI with an LPG conversion, except it wasn't actually hooked up to the engine any more. Nevertheless, for some reason, it made my insurance very cheap.
That's an entirely unhelpful story, sorry.
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bl1300
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Sept 2, 2011 20:35:36 GMT
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That's an entirely unhelpful story, sorry. I don't see why. I aimed the thread as a discussion as to the virtues and disadvantages of it. An insurance discount definatly seems like an advantage to me.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Sept 2, 2011 21:22:19 GMT
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Having to use an adaptor on the filler is the sign of a cheap and nasty conversion unless you had it done in Europe, or you specifically asked for a Euro type filler. (Imports are obviously and exception here) The Aussie's do LPG way better than we do, look on ebay.com.au for performance LPG gear
Never been asked for a certificate yet in 12+ years of LPG motoring, tanks should be re-tested every 10 years
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dubzi
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Not necessarily cheap and nasty. I had such a thing on my Range Rover. The filler mounted externally and without the adaptor was just a screw thread covered by a plastic cover. The "adaptor" was actually the filler bayonet which just screwed in. Having the wrong filler and having to use an adaptor is probably not a good idea, just as easy to get the right thing. I currently run my Bedford CF Ambulance/camper beast on LPG, it would be unaffordable on petrol. The performance drop on that isn't really noticeable as it won't do more than about 60 ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Last Edit: Sept 3, 2011 6:10:54 GMT by dubzi
Happiness ain't at the end of the road. Happiness is the road.
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bl1300
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Not necessarily cheap and nasty. I had such a thing on my Range Rover. The filler mounted externally and without the adaptor was just a screw thread covered by a plastic cover. The "adaptor" was actually the filler bayonet which just screwed in. Thats exactly what ours had. The bayonet was very easy to lose. Because of all the air suspension gubbins on our LSE we couldn't fit the LPG tanks in the conventional rangey locations. So out came the petrol tank to be replaced with an lpg doughnut and a 5 gallon petrol tank installed as well. Oh conversion cost £2500 from an LPG specialists in the area That was the problem forget the adaptor for the lpg and well I'm sure you can gather how not very far a 4.2l range rover would go on that petrol tank.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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luckygti
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I'm thinking of LPG'ing the van when I put the Scooby engine, so this is interesting to me. What's the best kit to buy for self build, and I know there are different kits for fuel injection and carb, so what's the difference? Sorry to hijack ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) oh, and I know google will tell me all these things...."......... But where's the fun in that ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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I used LPG so as to allow me daily usage of stupid vehicles. This^ How much does it improve mpg exactly? Classic insurance can get you insured on stuff you wouldnt normally be able to get insured on and lpg could even mean you could run it on a decent mpg, just intrigued as to how much it raises mpg by?
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Colonelk
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LPGColonelk
@colonelk
Club Retro Rides Member 83
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Anyone had any experience with those BLOS LPG carb type thingys? Like an SU carb for LPG but with no butterfly (uses the one on the engine already) supposed to be good pieces of kit.... Although the Polish fella only sells them very occasionally on ebay now The fact no one has been asked for inspection or a cert is pleasing
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Last Edit: Sept 3, 2011 9:58:21 GMT by Colonelk
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Sept 3, 2011 10:06:20 GMT
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Ive been tiring to find out is the BLOS carb is ok as I am thinking of fitting one to my 1993 cherokee
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Sept 3, 2011 11:34:04 GMT
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I think the idea of the BLOS variable venturi mixer is really cool, but I wasn't prepared to spend the £110 or so until I found a writeup/review that wasn't on a landrover site frequented by the seller! Pete, it's well worth having a look through the Tinley Tech website as they seem to come highly recommended for DIY installations and have a basic FAQ and explanation of the types of systems but basically.. Open loop/mixer- The most basic type and only used on cars with carb or mech injection. The LPG gets heated and regulated by a reducer/condenser and then sucked into your inlet tracked due to venturi effect. Quite crude, impossible to set up perfectly (IMO) but can be made to run well. closed loop mixer.. A refinement of the above. Between the reducer and mixer is a stepper motor to fine tune the fuel level. It's controlled by a lambda sensor. Sequential multipoint. Full ECU controlled cleverness. Much better than the above but you'll need a car that's running electronic injection gubbins to start with. Too advanced for me to have a clue about ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring.
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ChasR
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LPGChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Sept 3, 2011 12:16:00 GMT
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I have now ran 5 cars on LPG and tried to help others with LPG installations.
What I found that unless you go for a mega cheap kit (Voltran is one), then you are almost out of the woods. The installation however is just as important and it is surprising how people can get this so wrong.
One of our cars was converted from a professional outfit using a top notch kit (Landi Renzo Omegas). It is also the one that gave us the most trouble, even more than the Voltran mixer kit on a fuel injected car (although that did backfire lots). I did eventually get it working right, but it would have been cheaper for me and more time effective to have put on a completely new front end kit onto it, there were that many flaws present.
The kit is important I admit, but the installation plays just as important part and you would be surprised to see just how many professionally installed kits suffer from this.
I would agree with the 5-10% figure for a loss of economy. The V6 Auto Mondeo did 22-24MPG on Petrol, when it did around 18-20 on LPG. The new car is a similar story but on a motorway run, the difference is near negligible with no difference in performance between petrol and LPG (with no engine management light present either).
A 2.0 Mk3 Mondeo (sister's car) I borrowed to take me around Europe fully loaded (I lowered the rear on the car on the cheap one could say!) did around 30MPG average dropping down to 28MPG with my friend at the helm and his 'economy' saving tips (doing 85-90 most of the way and knocking the car into neutral when not being driven by the engine...).
Ben's comment seem to be spot on. Venturis work fine on a carbed car. On one with fuel injection I have found them to be a mixed blessing IME, and tend to be fitted primarily for a cost basis on these type of cars.
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Last Edit: Sept 3, 2011 12:19:31 GMT by ChasR
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Sept 3, 2011 14:54:36 GMT
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I gather that it burns a lot cleaner and as result engines don't wear as fast. But as its a much lower octane you loose some bhp and use more of it. Okay, allow me to blow your mind by saying that none of these statements are true! LPG is harder on engines than petrol, because it doesn't cool the inlet ports/valves through vaporisation and it doesn't provide any lubrication to the valves as petrol does. So, in other words your engine will run hotter and drier. Factory LPG engines often have special valves to cope with the higher temperatures. LPG has a higher octane rating than petrol, but it has much less energy density. What this means is that it takes more of it to produce the same amount of power. However, if you specifically set an engine up to run on LPG only, then you can make more power than an equivalent petrol engine by running a fair bit more compression, as it has similar octane to race fuel. LPG is a mixture of mostly propane and butane. Butane has an octane value of 102 RON and propane is 112 RON, so LPG will be some average value in between.
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Sept 3, 2011 15:23:36 GMT
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Great timing for a thread on lpg- ive been offered a 52 VolvoV40 with factory lpg for £800 which seems well cheap! Problem is I know nothing about drawbacks etc. Are there any benefits of a factory conversion?
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--------------------------- 89 Masterace Surf 03 Astra 03 V40 Sport 09 E90 M Sport
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Sept 3, 2011 17:21:19 GMT
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I'm running a disco v8 on lpg at the moment on the single point system [omvl] and ive owned quite a few tdis .i can say hand on heart i would never have another derv disco. mine has more power on lpg returns more mpg [equivalent] and it sounds 1000 times better. and so what it might burn your valve seats out after 100.000 miles youve saved that much and done the planet a favour over carcinogenic diesel you can afford to have your head or heads rebuilt or buy new top stuff lpg I'm a convert and love it ;D
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97 volvo 940 turbo wagon 87 fiat strada abarth 78 gs1000 82 katana 1100 84 gsx1100 efe
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ChasR
RR Helper
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LPGChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Sept 3, 2011 17:54:23 GMT
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Equivalent I will agree on. Even though the price has gone up, it still just about makes it worthwhile running a petrol on LPG IMO especially on some moderns where the equivalent dervs come with their own issues (Fuel pumps, injectors, DMFs to name a few). As for that V40, Volvos were better than most manufacturers on LPG but I would still look carefully around it. Ensure it drives fine, and look for telltale signs of trouble (Coolant not being coolant (I.E straight water with potential signs of K Seal etc.) I once bought a professionally fitted LPG car and that gave me endless grief (again, it was cheap). With a few simple checks I may well not have considered it. As for the valves, Flashlube ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) .
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Last Edit: Sept 3, 2011 17:55:01 GMT by ChasR
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