Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Sept 2, 2011 14:02:51 GMT
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i just nipped down to the shop in my new legnum, more or less its first drive out, and got the mother of all pulls. as i was parking (legally, thankfully!) a black volvo traffic car went past, immediately about-turned and pulled over for a 'word'. or seven 1.not showing as insured. 2. not displaying tax disc. 3. illegal registration plates. 4. 'dangerously low'. 5. stretched tyres on front. 6. mismatched front/rear wheels. 7. car generally very dusty inc. windscreen. 1. i have a trade policy but didnt have my paperwork on me, so they did ring my insurer to make sure i was covered, and on the type of car i was driving too (modified import). i need to add the car to the policy, but havent had it on the road for 14 days yet. 2. i had it on the seat, ironically i was going to the shop to buy some food and a tax disc holder! 3. they werent, cos its an import, he did have a good measure though. hence me asking questions on here before i bought them 4. they checked it had suspension travel front and rear(which it did, about half an inch) and the wheels werent rubbing, and gave up on that one. 5. he wanted to fix penalty me for the tyres/rims, but could find nothing in the C+R handbook about recommended tyre sizes for specific rim width, and even rang his superior/base before deciding it was a matter of opinion and not fact, and 'letting me off'. he did know what stretched tyres were though, and didnt seem to like them. but, he didnt tell me to get them changed, or that they were illegal. 6. it had stock wheels on the back as my tyres for the other rims were being fitted. i pointed out that they were matched to axles and both radials, he then admitted i was right on that too. 7. i had to show him my washers worked. seriously. so, did i get (un)lucky, or is it pretty much impossible to get 'done' for stretched tyres as there is no hard and fast guidelines on what is ok and what isnt?
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Copey
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,845
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Sept 2, 2011 14:08:10 GMT
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sounds like a pedantic copper that doesnt really know his job as well as he thinks he does!!
out of them things, insurance, tax and windscreen are about the only things he had any ground on, import plates are legal, stretched tyres arent illegal, neither are different sizes front to back and dangerously low? get a life, jesus
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Last Edit: Sept 2, 2011 14:09:10 GMT by Copey
1990 Ford Sierra Sapphire GLSi with 2.0 Zetec 1985 Ford Capri 3.0 (was a 2.0 Laser originally)
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Sept 2, 2011 14:11:30 GMT
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After not being able to pin any of that lot on ya.... i'd say your cards marked for next time! lol
I spose the only real thing with stretched tyres is if they were run to a point they'd started to go baldy. But if they're all well treaded at the time then i wouldnt know. There maybe something in some lesser known document somewhere in the fact some have to be over inflated to stay on the rims?
Even mine are very very slightly stretched but you cant really tell, they're just not the idea width.
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Sept 2, 2011 14:13:05 GMT
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So he measured for travel... Can't wait for him to pull up a hardtail motorbike. Just sounds like a jobsworth copper that didn't particularly like the look of your car.
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Sept 2, 2011 14:18:39 GMT
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Interesting that you got pulled for being dangerously low, I've spotted that a few times from other lowered car owners. I can understand the worry about undercarriage damaging the road or being a hazard, but you have to be properly pan scraping to be 'dangerous'. Besides, lowered cars aren't dangerously low, it's the island speedbumps that are dangerously high.
You're a lucky chap though, looks like he was determined to get you on something.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Sept 2, 2011 14:20:07 GMT
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so, did I get (un)lucky, or is it pretty much impossible to get 'done' for stretched tyres as there is no hard and fast guidelines on what is ok and what isnt? There is a guideline in regards to the min/max widths of wheel that each size of tyre will fit, but this cannot be classed as a 'legal' document, as it's exactly that, a guideline. There 'may' be a British or European Standard which dictates tyre vs wheel fitments, but I can't find one...
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Sept 2, 2011 14:23:22 GMT
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the thing with stretched tyres isn't so much that they are illegal in themselves but...
if you were in an accident in a modified car the cops will go over it to look for "contributory factors" - which is to say the work you done on the car caused the accident - at least in part - remember that guy who fitted the wrong callipers on his Landy, rolled it and killed his kids?
Having spoken to the cops and solicitors on this the consensus of opinion was if you prang a car with tyres which are fitted on wheel rims outside of the width the manufacturer specifies for those tyres you could be in the deep doo-doo for "contributory factor", which in the case of the guy with the Land Rover got him heavy jail time.
You could also get the fame of setting a legal precedent on the matter...
Same thing with my fave habit of driving barefoot. Law says "suitable footwear" should be worn. No footwear is not necessarily "unsuitable". If I was in a crash I would have to "justify to the court" that drving bare foot is not dangerous.
This also goes for ladies in high heels etc.
I have several pairs of boots I would consider "unsuitable" to drive in.
Its common sense and interpretation of the law - occasionally common sense vs. interpretation of the law...
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Last Edit: Sept 2, 2011 14:26:46 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Sept 2, 2011 14:28:55 GMT
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Following on from that, i spose you then get into the whole liability thing.
For example if it was found that tyre faliure was the cause, and they tyre was say 2 weeks old. For arguments sake it's a Toyo. Toyo would wash their hands of all blame if it was fitted to a rim they say is too wide, even if that wasnt the cause of tyre faliure. I spose then questions would be asked as to who fitted the tyre knowing it wasn't wide enough, then it all gets messy. The whole "Who do we sue?" thing!
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Sept 2, 2011 14:30:39 GMT
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Wow officer hater is ON PATROL!
Did he check your front windows for illegal tint too?
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Sept 2, 2011 14:33:32 GMT
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Following on from that, I spose you then get into the whole liability thing. For example if it was found that tyre faliure was the cause, and they tyre was say 2 weeks old. For arguments sake it's a Toyo. Toyo would wash their hands of all blame if it was fitted to a rim they say is too wide, even if that wasnt the cause of tyre faliure. I spose then questions would be asked as to who fitted the tyre knowing it wasn't wide enough, then it all gets messy. The whole "Who do we sue?" thing! May I present to the court Ford vs Firestone and the case of the wacky barrel rolling Explorers. I think that epic bit of buck passing fell on the pressure dealers were told to keep the tyres at.
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MaDSeB
Part of things
Big things in small packages
Posts: 574
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Sept 2, 2011 14:59:46 GMT
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oh, chalk up another roadside check for the essex traffic devision. they are getting renound round these parts for pullling people and being very pedantic in thier "textbook checks". an ex gf of mine got pulled over in an old mini by the essex bab, assisted by vosa one evening, as her rear lights didnt function correctly (faulty corroded fuse box) and wouldnt allow her to move untill the morning even though i offered to come down and fit new fuse box so all was road worthy? so i had to go down and pick her up anyway?
they realy are getting silly on this sort of thing, and will check over a car, in an attempt to raise some more funds for petrol for all thier subarus and evos! and just generaly give everyone who drives a modified car a hard time.
The way i see it, motorists are easy prey, and requires no policing skills to tally up the crime statistics in their favour.
not hating, i just think thier time could be better allocated. i have much respect for the essex police but the traffic devision........
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Sept 2, 2011 15:13:46 GMT
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So he measured for travel... Can't wait for him to pull up a hardtail motorbike. Just sounds like a jobsworth copper that didn't particularly like the look of your car. Years ago I got pulled on my old BSA C15, I lived about 6 miles from the Hendon Training centre, so they use to sent the 'newbies' out with experienced traffic guys as a way of training them. Out of the car popped an old guy with sargents stripes and a spotty faced newbie. While I stood and chatted about bikes with the old guy, (The reason why he 'Really' stopped me was because he was interested in why a young bloke was riding a classic bike instead of an RD350LC or a Superdream), the young one was all over the bike. Finally he came over and quoted some part of the C&U Act that said that a bike with no indicators must not have a return spring on the throttle to so that it didn't close while the rider was performing a hand signal. The sargent looked at me and rolled his eyes, then told the young one to "F**k off back to the car, sit quielty and think about not looking stupid in uniform". ;D ;D
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Last Edit: Sept 2, 2011 15:15:08 GMT by 1960zody
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nofrills
Posted a lot
my wings are made of Steeeeeeeel!!!
Posts: 1,243
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Sept 2, 2011 15:17:11 GMT
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Dez sounds to me just like a copper who was having a bad day and just fancied taking it out on someone else!
i had essex police all over my wagon 2 weekends ago, interesting enough i was parked at my parents and when i went to leave, they were there taking my reg plate on there little notepad, seeing if it were too low, which they mentioned about the tyre gap was very close (cant quite get 1 finger between my tyre and arch)but never scrubbed, its insured, mot'd and taxed infact mot'ed about 2 days before they were looking at it, first time in 10 years i have been talked to by the police, they didn't say much just grunted at me, i have respect for the police but sometimes i do have to question why!
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Sept 2, 2011 15:27:30 GMT
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Getting pulled for suspected no insurance seems like good policing. Checking out things he thought seemed wrong, only to change his opinion based on facts also sounds like the guy who pulled you over was a lot better than a lot of his colleagues.
Any shots of the Legnum then Dez? They're cars that are rarely done, and those that are are usually not my style...I reckon yours just might be...especially if it's dangerously low!
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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Sept 2, 2011 16:37:35 GMT
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LOL, maybe the Essex/Suffolk police are having a crack down. I was pulled last night in Sudbury in the E21 img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/robjobuk/E21325/DSCF1271.jpg . I was driving from my farm to my home around midnight last night when I noticed a car come right up behind me as I came into Sudbury. My policy is to drive responsibly when this happens as you never know who's behind you... It paid off. As I went into the town centre the street lights showed the car behind... it was a patrol car. Sure enough on came the blues and they pulled me over. I wasn't particularly surprised since the car is old, modified, loud and I'm a "young man" as one of the officers described. As soon as I saw it was a police car I knew it was inevitable, I'm almost certain they doubled back on a roundabout just to follow me. They ran my details, the car's details and checked all my tyres. Since modified BMWs could be of particular interest to the police I always make sure I'm squeaky clean, I'm just glad they didn't check the diff though. Apparently it was a routine check since it was late and I was driving an old car, it also wasn't showing up as taxed. No word of a lie, I had just got the tax disc and slapped it in the window 15 minutes earlier. I'm glad I'm did, since they simply accepted that the DVLA system hadn't updated yet. I was then free to go...
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i ETC
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Sept 2, 2011 16:52:50 GMT
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indeed, I'm by no means having a go about being pulled- id expect to be pulled in a car showing as uninsured, hence me usually carrying documents, but this time id left them in another car.
he was very picky about the mods, and wanted to look under the bonnet as well- which is all stock apart from HIDs. i do feel i was given a bit of a hard time cos it was a modified car though, as pointed out above. at least he did come round and was open to discussion on items he obviously wasnt sure on.
the fact it was MOTed last tuesday did go in my favour too.
he didnt check for tint actually, even though they are (what J imports arent!)
as for the dangerously low thing, its low, but it has about 2" of clearance, except for the mudflaps that have less than a fingers width to the floor and do scrape quite a bit. they're getting removed anyway.
and Rmad, pics will be up very soon- i think it will rewrite the rules on galants/legnum, cos its not a VR4 and its not trying to be sporty. I'm just waiting on some (more) rear tyres, hence me being on half and half stock and new when i was stopped!
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Sept 2, 2011 17:03:05 GMT
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IMO anything with bad scrub lines shouldn't be on the road. Not suggesting yours is like that Dez but stuff thats definitelty unsafe has no place on the road. "Dangerously low" is just shorthand for that.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Sept 2, 2011 17:06:28 GMT
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he didnt check for tint actually, even though they are (what J imports arent!) Well what a amateur! West Midlands police love a bit of tint checking and then boasting about it on Twitter.
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Sept 2, 2011 17:07:39 GMT
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I once got in a bit of bother when stopped in a Vauxhall Ventora, the copper wrote me up a producer for a Vauxhall Frontera...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Sept 2, 2011 18:58:53 GMT
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I'm just glad they didn't check the diff though. Now I'm intrigued, why?
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