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OK, what I have is a car with lap belts in the rear and 3 point belts in the front.
My daughter is outgrowing the child seat (I got a Britax one which works on a lap belt only or 3 point) and now needs a booster seat by law.
However... I don't see the point of a booster seat on a lap belt. The booster is there to stop the shoulder strap riding on the neck/throat of the child. In fact a booster seat on a lap belt seems maybe to be less safe than just using the lap belt? More to slip out and so forth, see what I mean?
My other option is to put her in the front seat on a booster and the 3 point belt there. However I'm unsure about a 4 year old riding in the front of the car. Also I'm a little wary of the front seat belts as they are a slightly odd design (its an American car with bucket seats)
Thoughts on what is legal and safest?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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fieldy
Part of things
Posts: 474
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I know the front seat belts you mean (I think) as have had a few yank cars, however, I can assure you, in an accident, the rubbish 3 point belt will be more effective than the rear lap belt.
It is shown, that children suffer 'alternate' injuries when using just lap belts, including, horrific as it is, paralysing of the spine.
I would take the rubbish 3 pointer over the lap belt anytime. The reason I liked my mk2 Mondeo is because it has 3 point belts on all 3 seats in the rear.... I will never use a lap belt on any of my kids.... Just in case (sorry to anyone on here who does.... I just over worry about it myself)
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bigrod
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,654
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Last Edit: Aug 3, 2011 10:10:32 GMT by bigrod
If I have to explain, you won't understand. Maximum signature image height = 80 pixels
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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I'm not sure of the law regarding lap belts for kids but I don't think I'd do it even if it were legal. When ickle_Seth was quite small we got one of these. www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_263627_langId_-1_categoryId_165763It was well worth the investment as it should last her 'til she's legally old/tall enough to not need anything. We very much liked the fact that it means she still has side and head support unlike with just a booster and it has the advantage that the car's seat belt runs through guides. We have got a small booster cushion thing but rarely use it as she really doesn't seem very secure in it in comparison. Its quite slippy on teh seat (don't think they design these hard plastic boosters with vinyl seats in mind ) I would look at putting three point belt in the back. Surely can't be hard to find a place to bolt one in the back?
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Lawsy
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,615
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I don't think there is any issues with a 4 yr old in the front as long as sat/belted correctly
see plenty of vans/pick ups etc with car seats in the front - just don't know what the law is when there is seats in the back
how would you go on then if no rear seat belts fitted at all?
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I wouldnt take her in a car with no belts despite it actually being legally permisible
My concern with the belts in front is that American seat belts do not pull tight when you yank on them like ours do, they only lock under hard braking. This makes it impossible to tell if a child seat is correctly secured by them until it's too late.
Also in the TrAns Am the belts are routed in a funny way to go in the bucket seats and to allow rear seat access
I'll follow those links provided when I'm back at a PC
Thanks for the input so far
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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DutyFreeSaviour
Europe
Back For More heartbreak and disappointment.....
Posts: 2,944
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I'm with Seth on this one Akku - Byron is only 13ths - but I've already ordered the same kind of seat for him for future use. I won't take a chance on the lap belts at all. I don't think there's a parent on here (or anywhere) that could live with the aftermath and would constantly question - would the other option have been better - etc.... I know you're in the same boat (not knocking your car choices ) as the rest of us - the little ones are the most precious things we have the privilege of having in our custody for a time - tin can always be sold on/swapped/thrown away etc....
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Back from the dead..... kind of
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,789
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The first thing I did when I bought my Vitesse was fit Britax 3 point belts for the kids to sit on boosters. They were 4 and 5 years old IIRC
I wouldn't even entertain lap belts
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I'd fit new belts akku, at least one retracting 3-point belt. A little one is priceless. Sod the law and it being legal, in an accident kids become flying projectiles, certainly with older, less secure belts they do.
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How are the bucket seats of an 'odd' design? Harness shoulder straps too high or something? (readf post properly...)
Would it be worth fitting a 4/5 point to one of the passenger bucket seat?
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Last Edit: Aug 3, 2011 13:26:46 GMT by camerashy
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Hi, l would fit 3 point retracting seatbelts in the back with a booster seat which has a back/headrest as these also have a guide which holds the seatbelt across the childs chest, Remember the front seatbelts are designed for an adult and the diagonal part will be in the wrong place, also children can submarine under the lap part of the belt. I think a company has started remanufacturing retro fit belts l'll see if l can find the article.
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OK I know what is legal isn't necessarily also safe (and visa versa) hense me asking what was safe AND legal. I get why a booster is needed on a 3 point belt. I just don't trust the stock front belts with my daughter regardless of them having a booster under them or not. I'm thinking rear belts are the answer as I should be able to fabricate some way to put a proper inertia reel 3 point belt in the back. I'm aware of several univeral kits out there. Britax, Securon and Quick Fit - the later doing tailored kits to your spec. Being as I have more than one car I was hoping to get a solution which works across multiple vehicles. My habit of changing cars on a 3 - 6 month rotation means I was more into the idea of not spending money on the car... But I think the Trans Am is a keeper as is the new car which will replace the Cadillac (and currenly has no belts so will require fully fitting out in that respect...)
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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B'Jesus the posting on that 1st PH thread reminds me why I never bother with their forum. Too many asshats with a point to prove (and probably small weenies) seem to drag every thread I was interested in off topic.
Some useful info, some stuff I was utterly unaware of. Very useful stuff. I'll read the second, longer post fully later.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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mr
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,581
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i used a lap belt while my daughter was in a baby chair, that literally held it in place while the chair had its own 5 point harness built in. now my kids are bigger and only sit on booster seats, ive retro fitted 3 point ones in the back. lap belts would just make them fold in the middle in the event of a crash. you could probably source some shelf mount innercua ones on ebay if you look hard enough. that said, my daughter and son usually end up riding the passenger seat and sat on just the booster seat base things they have and use the normal 3 point belts . no air bags in my car to turn off either.
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Got the car from 105 bhp at the crank to 152 at the wheels.nitrous going on next.....if it ain't broke,keep bolting on go faster parts until it is........ www.fordgranadaclubuk.freefo.de
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sinjon
Part of things
Posts: 46
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how tall is your daughter and what does she weigh? ? my wife works for halfrawds and part of her job is fitting child seats, she isnt your usual halfrauds employee, she is inteligant and has an enciclopedic knowlage of the laws for kids in cars. if you let me know her hight and weight i can ask her the answer for you.
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2.9 sierra xr4x4
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I was told there is a type that looks like this: www.mamasandpapas.com/product-cybex-pallas-2-in-1-shadow/119466800/type-i/It can be used with a lap belt, you might want to do some research on that though. We have 2 of those for our kids and I feel a lot safer them having a padded bar across them than a small 4 point harness or normal seatbelt, I think it would spread the load better across their body rather than their shoulders. Also stops them playing with window winders etc and lasts until they are 12.
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1977 datsun 810 180b estate
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bigrod
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,654
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B'Jesus the posting on that 1st PH thread reminds me why I never bother with their forum. Too many asshats with a point to prove (and probably small weenies) seem to drag every thread I was interested in off topic. Yeah, I know it was quite painful. Some useful info, some stuff I was utterly unaware of. Very useful stuff. I'll read the second, longer post fully later. As you say though, if you hack all the cr4p and 'DailyMailesque' vitriol out there's some extremely helpful info'. Good luck and let us know what conclusion you come to.
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If I have to explain, you won't understand. Maximum signature image height = 80 pixels
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AK: Ferrying the niece and nephew about here has been fairly painless as we both have modern dailies, but I was looking at the booster seats we have- they are the type that use a 3-point harness, but also have the more recent seat anchors.
The seat anchors have only two places they hook into those little latch pieces in between the seat squab and cushion at the back for if you remove the back and use only the bottom part of the boost seat.
So, all in all, if you can, fit three point belts with inertia reels- safer all round and meh, if they aren't wanted by another owner they can unbolt.
--Phil
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Damien - your linky no worky dude.
She has a seat at the moment which has all the padding/side supports/4 point harness /etc. which attaches very firmly in place with the lap belt. Its designed to do so. In fact it works even better in the trans am as as the rear seats are slightly bucket-like and itfits just perfect in the recess there for extra retention. I've used this best part of 2 years I think. She's outgrowing it now though,
I was told booster seat was next step. Happy to use another seat although we seem to have a booster seat already (I think its part of one of the several car seats we have acquired)
Had a brief look in back of the Trans Am and not obvious where it would be you'd put a shoulder mount, but I'll look again when I have more time. I'm famously unobservant.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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how tall is your daughter and what does she weigh? ? my wife works for halfrawds and part of her job is fitting child seats, she isnt your usual halfrauds employee, she is inteligant and has an enciclopedic knowlage of the laws for kids in cars. if you let me know her hight and weight I can ask her the answer for you. cheers chap, will measure, weigh and let you know
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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