micrat
South East
Building a Kanjo styled Cinquecento :)
Posts: 1,176 
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Jul 13, 2011 21:52:16 GMT
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my google-ability is weak on this one, but I'm installing 4 points to the gti soon (don't worry I don't need advice for that bit) and I have always just installed them with the straps 'uncrossed' at the rear of the seat, like so...  I always thought that this 'x' layout...  was just for looks... however i've been told that if your rear mounting points are more than a certain distance from the seat base its advised to 'x' the straps... can anyone help? sorry if this should be in the dumb question amnesty, safety first and all that  p.s...lol  |
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2011 21:53:39 GMT by micrat
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jul 13, 2011 22:00:36 GMT
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I'm not sure if there is any reasoning behind it or not, but I know there's no mention of it in the MSA yearbook, which I'd generally take to mean you're fine to go with them un-crossed. Although I'd be intrigued to see if there is any reason behind it though. I guess it could slightly help with keeping the seat from moving sideways in an impact.
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scruff
Part of things
Posts: 621
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Jul 13, 2011 22:18:32 GMT
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I think the crossed is more important if you don't have harness slots.
In a crash if the belts are straight they may slip off the side but the cross tends to pull the belts together reducing the tendancy to slip off your shoulders.
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1994 Lotus Esprit - Fragile red turbo with pop up lights.
1980 Porsche 924 - Fragile red turbo with pop up lights.
I spy a trend...
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I'm not sure what the difference between crossed and uncrossed is. However what is worrying is that in both the pics you posted the belts are mounted in the wrong places. Dunno why people don't read the instructions with safety items.
Matt
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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I suppose it prevents sideways movement in a crash. The thing that worries me in your pic though is the twisted strap. That means that in an accident the load may not go in the designed direction. The best bet is to read the instructions and follow what they say. The company making the belts will have tested them in mutiple fitting methods and the instructions they give will have the best overall results.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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Jul 14, 2011 12:13:20 GMT
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Crossed is too stop slippage as said above also believe it or not they should be as horizontal as possible so i have been informed in the past
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1998 Subaru Impreza uk wagon rebuilding into RWD FUN
1993 Range Rover 200TDi LSE
1998 VW Passat 1.9 TDi Estate
1992 Mercedes W124 3.0 Estate
2002 Citroen Berlingo 1900tdi
1984 Mercedes W123 2.0 Auto FOR SALE
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Jul 14, 2011 12:28:55 GMT
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The thing that worries me in your pic though is the twisted strap. That's not his pic!! Besides which, it's only because it's been rolled off the shoulder and is unclasped. Crossed is too stop slippage as said above also believe it or not they should be as horizontal as possible so I have been informed in the past between horizontal and a 45 degree angle, is what I understand to be acceptable, which generally means rear seatbelt mounting points are ok. |
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jasonj
Part of things
Posts: 220
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Jul 14, 2011 12:30:31 GMT
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The rear harness straps should be crossed if the mounting point is more than 450mm from the back of the seat. Only applies if the straps are to be fixed to a harness bar or roll cage.
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Team Supercharged Opel Ascona 400.
294bhp - 235 lb/ft
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Jul 14, 2011 14:18:06 GMT
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I thought it was between horizontal and 30 degrees? They look too steep in the pics.
Matt
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Jul 14, 2011 14:34:05 GMT
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I love the way everyone has different opinions on configuration and installation of harnesses!
I've always just bolted them to the standard seat belt mounts and hoped for the best, probably not the right way to go about it. I would imagine the best thing to do is check out photos of actual Touring/Rally cars and then mimic how they are layed out?
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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jasonj
Part of things
Posts: 220
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Jul 14, 2011 14:38:24 GMT
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Team Supercharged Opel Ascona 400.
294bhp - 235 lb/ft
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Jul 14, 2011 14:56:44 GMT
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Jul 14, 2011 15:28:21 GMT
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SHOULDER BELT ROUTING (APPLIES TO ALL RESTRAINT TYPES)
Shoulder belts must run from the shoulders horizontally or down, at no more than a 20° angle.
In cases where the shoulder belts must be routed down to the chassis floor, support by a roll cage bar or harness guide at the appropriate height is essential to establish the horizontal shoulder strap routing off the shoulder/HANS®. Most racing seats are not designed and tested to carry shoulder belt crash loads from downward installation. Severe injury or death could result. A 45° downward shoulder belt installation is possible with seats that SCHROTH has positively tested to take a load measured during a 50 kph [31 mph] and 28 G impact with a 75 kg (175 lb) dummy. Refer to the list of SCHROTH approved racing seats in section “About Seats”. WARNING: 45° downward shoulder belt installation is not recommended with HANS®.
For the best restraint of the occupant’s upper torso, ideal anchor points should not be further back than 200 mm [8”] from back of user’s seat.
In the event that the anchor points are further towards the rear of the vehicle [e.g. using a roll cage bar for wrap around attachment] the distance between the strap anchor points will narrow or even cross over as described in following graphs and tables.
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Jul 14, 2011 15:37:22 GMT
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The instructions that came with my 4 point TRS harness said the original seatbelt mounts in most cars are advisable to mount to.
I didn't do that as mine never came with rear seatbelts, so fitted new anchor points as high as possible to make the harness as straight as possible, eve though that makes the anchors further back.
Fitting them closer to the seat would mean 40degrees if not steeper!
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Lopez
East Midlands
Posts: 867
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Jul 14, 2011 17:36:28 GMT
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micrat
South East
Building a Kanjo styled Cinquecento :)
Posts: 1,176
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Jul 14, 2011 17:39:56 GMT
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thanks for the advice people! and no those arent my pics just some 'library images' (why would you want harnesses in a 5 door car with full interior anyway?!) like a lot of you have said, i have run countless sets of harnesses in the past just to the seatbelt mounts, even in my stock car (although i eventually moved those) and don't see too much of a problem, however the scroth guidelines are a good find, thankyou! think ill just do rear mounts and a tarty 'x' in the rover, I'm keeping the standard belts too while it remains a daily, just for ease of 'nipping to the shops' stuff... cheers guys  |
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jul 14, 2011 22:22:57 GMT
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The MSA yearbook/bluebook states that up to 45deg is acceptable, but recommends below a 20deg angle.
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