Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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OK, so its been discussed to death but I'm looking at cageing the kitten project, probably just a 6 point or 8 point. the car will be used on the road, the strip, and track days (none of these require cages right?) and i would also like to possibly do some sprints of hill climbs just for fun ( i would imagine i would need a roll cage for this as the extensive mods will put it in a modified clasS) my questions are: is it possible to DIY build one sucessfully, i realise it would be hard to please the FEDs with the sprinting and hill climbing but i can live with that, i guess this would be the cheapest way to do it? can you buy hoops etcs pre made? whats the going rate for a 6 point cage? i was thinking somthing like this but simplified abit, i.e. just a diagonal brace across the diagonal back of the seats and the same in the room etc: this mini one from ebay looks like it wouldnt take much modification! the other thing is are 4 point bars any good? obviously notr as strong, but are they accepted at circuits? i heard that scimitar SS1s where having trouble sprinting as the roll bar is too low, and you cant draw a line from the top of it to the strongest point at the nose of the car without chopping the drivers head off.
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2006 9:48:02 GMT by Mr K
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Nick
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,483
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Roll cagesNick
@rearwheelnick
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Jul 14, 2006 10:00:15 GMT
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yes it is possible to diy build one, look towards the U.S desert racing scene, you will see a lot of well built diy cages, its all about bending the tube right and having a decent enough bender to do it.
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idea stolen from rattely eddie.
this weeks car count "5"
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Jul 14, 2006 10:22:58 GMT
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Likely as not you will have to make one as there's unlikely to be an off the shelf one available. When I priced up CDS for making a cage for my 510 it would have only actually saved me a little over £100 to make it myuself so I bought one from Safety Devices. It might be worth pricing up the materials and tools and then getting a quote from Custom cages or any other company that builds them to order just to make sure you are going to be able to save money. Remember, you only have to put one bend in the wrong place or cut a bit too short and the cost goes up dramatically when you have to go buy more CDS.
What would you attach it to in a Kitten? It would need to mount to some strong parts of the chassis rather than the body so that might complicate things.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Jul 14, 2006 10:26:20 GMT
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naa mounting is not a problem, there is lots of chassis in the right places!
so what is the going rate for a custom cage, on average?
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Jul 14, 2006 10:40:29 GMT
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so what is the going rate for a custom cage, on average? I couldn't tell you but I spoke to a guy at Cadwell Park a couple of years ago who reckoned it was around £550 for a custom 6 point with door bars. I never looked into a custom one myself as SD had an FIA bolt in one for about £450. Even if you only ever do track days I'd fit a cage. You crash just as hard on a track day as you do racing. Of course if you do cage it a proper race seat and good quality harness is a must. One thing I would add, is if you are designing it yourself try to get the main hoop far enough back for it not to be near your head. On the street having a big piece of steel tube next to your head is a potential killer in an accident. Mounting the seat low help with clearance here too.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Jul 14, 2006 10:43:41 GMT
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yea thats nowhere near as bad as i expected! i was expecting more like the wrong side of £1000! don't know why it was just a guess i suppose, maybe i need to contact some custom cage builders.
yup, harneses and buckets will be a must.
thats a good point about the hoop - i suppose it needs to be just behind the driver - but not too far away.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,949
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Roll cagesbstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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Jul 14, 2006 10:52:03 GMT
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I went and shopped round for my cage and the going rate seems to be £125-£150 per point (mounting) so
4 point = 500 (ish) 6 point = 750 (ish) etc etc
Big problem was everyone who was recommended were looking at 8mths before they could build one and I had a season of track days lined up
I got a local guy to fabricate mine for me using 45mm CDS tubing
It has 8 points of contact/mounting and is fully welded in rather than bolt in
2 on rear turrets 2 on floor behind drivers seat 2 on floor in footwells 2 on front turrets
It also welded to the shell in several other places
Materials came to £180 and I had to pay him to fabricate and install - it worked out a bit cheaper than £125 per point but not massively so but it was done when I wanted it done I did change a few things as I went along as a result of some advice on here and another forum
Obviously I have no certificate for it so certain activities are out of the question but for trackdays and autotesting it's perfect and the ridgitity it has put back into the car is nothing short of amazing!!!
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Jul 14, 2006 10:58:12 GMT
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thanks BC, next port of call will be to phone around a few people, but not for a while yet as i don't have the cash, or anything near a complete car to attatch it too, i can build the car and run without and get it caged later easy enough, the only bit in the way of the cage might be the dash.
thanks again for your advice.
Nick
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Roll cagesslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Jul 14, 2006 17:21:55 GMT
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Speakign from experiance. don't try and build one yourself unless you have a top notch bender (damn expensive) a tube notcher, alot of fabrication experiance.
Basicly buy one off the shelf or if you cant do that get someone to make it for you.
The only time i would say making bits yourself is viable is if you buy a basic full cage (like that mini one you posted) but add your own door bars and braces etc. thats pretty much what i did, as soon as you get into bending tube your wasting your time.
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Jul 14, 2006 19:35:09 GMT
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Just as an aside, and it may be compleeeeeetly irrelevant for what you want to do, but if you go drag racing (is in MSA events not RWYB) the cages are much heavier construction than roundy round or hillclimbing. I thought it might be worth a mention as the kitten is glass bodied isn't it? I think that even running quite slow times it might need one as a result but I'd have to check. Let me know if you want me to send you a rule book, I think I've got last year's somewhere
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Jul 15, 2006 13:02:12 GMT
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I think if i had a fast mini or kitten i'd want a cage! Keefy mentioned in the past, similarly to bstardchild, that is 100quid + per point for a custom cage, check adverisers in back of Custom car and other mags Classic ford has some like prepfab (sp) could be costly ringing round req'd.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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bryn
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,913
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Jul 15, 2006 15:53:19 GMT
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I used Caged in Trowbridge for this... www.therollcagepeople.comThe retail was just over a £1000 and the workmanship was first class. They design and stress test everything on a computer and it's fully FIA/MSA compliant, it's pricey but as others have said you're getting into a whole world of work if you go it alone. At the end of the day, it's your head and it all depends what price you put on it, but a good cage is priceless.
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Volvo, Buggy, Discovery and an old tractor.
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