phatphord
Part of things
Scorpilow
Posts: 674
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Jul 13, 2006 10:16:30 GMT
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Of course,everything was new once *gets ready to hide* my mum,always a mini fan even went out and bought a new bmw mini cooper over buying a good clean original for the exact reasons above.
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1994 Ford Scorpio Lowrider um...and some bikes...
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Jul 13, 2006 10:41:10 GMT
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thing is your mum, my mum, everyone's mum doesn't want the "motoring lottery" where you have to gamble on getting to your destination without a hitch. Sure, our retro cars are very reliable but mostly because we look after them, we service them, we stop breakdowns happening. If I gave my mum an average condition 1978 Golf to use every day it would rapidly become knackered because she's used to just dropping a car off for a service every year and not lifting the bonnet in between. She wouldn't want to concern herself of the correct type of oil to use, do the tappets need adjusting, is that a CV joint or a bearing whining?
These updated retros, whilst they may seem crass to us, are just a reminder for fun days for people who just use a car for transport. I'd rather someone gets in a BMW Mini or a New Beetle and has a little smile on their way to work than a Vectra, built by miseryguts for miseryguts.
As for the original question, I think anything that does it's own thing gets to be retro quicker - like HoTWire says Fiats are good at that. Look at the first-gen Multipla (not the original original one obviously, the bug-eyes remake), it's bonkers and it's special and before too long it'll be a retro oddity. The Corrado was one of the first of the new wave of accesible sporty coupes - it didn't handle fantastically, wasn't super quick and was basically a Golf but you could have a car that looked fast on your driveway. that's already a classic to some and retro only takes time over that!
However everything is retro once it lasts long enough dodging the scrapyards. Take a look at the for sale forum on here, or the cars we drive - some of those were once super-coupes in their day, some were executive chariots, some were what you were given in your first week as a sales rep. The thing that makes them retro is just that they're different, they're out of the box thinking, they're not cars you see every day.
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Never trust a man Who names himself Trevor. Or one day you might find He's not a real drug dealer.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jul 13, 2006 11:10:29 GMT
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thing is your mum, my mum, everyone's mum doesn't want the "motoring lottery" where you have to gamble on getting to your destination without a hitch. Sure, our retro cars are very reliable but mostly because we look after them, we service them, we stop breakdowns happening. If I gave my mum an average condition 1978 Golf to use every day it would rapidly become knackered because she's used to just dropping a car off for a service every year and not lifting the bonnet in between. She wouldn't want to concern herself of the correct type of oil to use, do the tappets need adjusting, is that a CV joint or a bearing whining? These updated retros, whilst they may seem crass to us, are just a reminder for fun days for people who just use a car for transport. I'd rather someone gets in a BMW Mini or a New Beetle and has a little smile on their way to work than a Vectra, built by miseryguts for miseryguts. As for the original question, I think anything that does it's own thing gets to be retro quicker - like HoTWire says Fiats are good at that. Look at the first-gen Multipla (not the original original one obviously, the bug-eyes remake), it's bonkers and it's special and before too long it'll be a retro oddity. The Corrado was one of the first of the new wave of accesible sporty coupes - it didn't handle fantastically, wasn't super quick and was basically a Golf but you could have a car that looked fast on your driveway. that's already a classic to some and retro only takes time over that! However everything is retro once it lasts long enough dodging the scrapyards. Take a look at the for sale forum on here, or the cars we drive - some of those were once super-coupes in their day, some were executive chariots, some were what you were given in your first week as a sales rep. The thing that makes them retro is just that they're different, they're out of the box thinking, they're not cars you see every day. Great post!
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Jul 13, 2006 11:31:33 GMT
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Even their saloon,the Blenheim 3 cracks 0-60 in 5.4 secs, 'tis truly a sporting gentlemans carriage Blenheim indeed! Looks to be like a Isuzu Bellet Coupe with the cabin moved about a foot backwards on the body making the bonnet longer and the boot shorter.
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Skyline: 1963 - 1973 - 1983 Sunny: 1982 450SLC: 1973 Navara: 1992 Gloria: 1992
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jul 13, 2006 11:37:34 GMT
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As has been said TVR are retro without meaning to be. Their interiors are so futuristic and yet they have such retro values to them. Big engine in front, big tyres on back and some pedals. Fin.
I hate cars that try to be retro though - they just annoy me hugely i.e. the Bimi.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jul 13, 2006 12:12:27 GMT
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I may not have phrased the original post all that well- but basically what I was getting at was that the new Z4 had a healthily simple set of values whereas most cars are so overloaded with kit that the chassis may be made of chewing gum & used matches but you wouldn't know because 6 supercomputers make it handle.
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Jul 13, 2006 12:15:39 GMT
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Oh, and I really like the MINI. I reguarly use a Cooper S and think it's a fantastic bit of kit- the retro cash-in does grate abit but then there is a great car behind all the marketing tosh. On the other hand I think the 'new' Beetle is a pile of cack- visibility is terrible and it's overly heavy and very understeery with zero performance in most versions.
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Jul 13, 2006 12:48:58 GMT
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I'm thinking more in terms of visual values here because I think my love of retro cars comes from those ones that really seemed to go for something original, not based on the easiest and cheapest way to achieve safety or aerodynamic perfection, but really celebrating the beauty of a car for its own sake and the originality of design that comes when the EU plays no part in the design.
For that reason I guess my 'modern' retro cars would be:
The Figaro The S Cargo Any TVR The Crossfire And there's a tiny little (J?) car that's just come out, looks a bit like a figaro that I can't name.
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jul 13, 2006 12:57:53 GMT
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peach - you mean the Daihatsu Copen? If so then right on - in the same way as the cappucino will be retro cool so will the copen. I love it. Wish I could fit in it though.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jul 13, 2006 12:59:25 GMT
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How can you love the Copen yet hate the Mini?
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jul 13, 2006 13:06:42 GMT
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Because the mini is just ripping off the original. I can't think of any car the copen is trying to be. It looks totally different from the cappucino.
Where as the Bimi is just a marketing ploy - a good car but no more than that.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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bxer
Part of things
Posts: 457
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Jul 13, 2006 13:09:21 GMT
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On the third page already, and no mention of... ;D (ducks) (sends link to someone else, they say 'no mention of what?', curses stupid useless proboards misleading preview, does some ftp magic...)
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2006 13:29:22 GMT by bxer
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Jul 13, 2006 13:31:39 GMT
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*Puts on bullet proof jacket*
Retro values? How about the early povo-spec Ford Ka?
Honestly! Very basic, but excellent handling, straightforward "Endura-E" OHV engine, funky styling and plenty of thoughtful interior touches giving some useful extra storage space. Plus they were expensive when new (although cheap now), and there are some rusty ones about. Bit like the original Mini, eh?
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My fleet: Suzuki GSX-R600Y SRAD with bald, melted tyres A borrowed Mondeo
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Jul 13, 2006 13:37:36 GMT
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peach - you mean the Daihatsu Copen? If so then right on - in the same way as the cappucino will be retro cool so will the copen. I love it. Wish I could fit in it though. That's the one!!
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Jul 13, 2006 13:54:12 GMT
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well, theres several ways you can read the questions and a numberof themes have been drawn out of this already, some of them "old favourites". But to try and cover my thoughts on the subject... "modern retro" as in cars styled in the manner of classic designs, well, I have greatly mixed feelings about this. Some work and some don't. I hated the new MINI when it was announced but since then I have come to realise I was wrong and its a great little car. Its like all the Mini's evolution happened overnight. The original design was a superb one, and it lasted from 1959 to what, 2000? Thats some product life cycle. The VW Beetle (1937ish to 2003) beats it though. Although the Beetle saw more development in its lifespan than the Classic Mini did arguably. The fact that most MINIs are owned by the sort of people who refer to themselves as "whacky" isn't going to put me off the thing much as most of the owners should have been drowned at birth... What I do object to is the form before function approach of retro-izing designs based on exisitng platforms. I absolutely detest the VW New Beetle on every level. It looks cack, it performas and handles worse than the Golf its based on, etc. etc. And then theres the '08 Dodge Challenger. Puuuhhhlease. reintroducing a carbon copy of something out of production for 30+ years? Take a 1974 car and restyle it just enough for it to fit on an existing platform and meet current regs? Lazy lazy lazy. It will be a niche market car for sure, and the question I have to ask it what will the Mk2 version look like? Theres no evolution path. I much prefer what Chevrolet are doing with the new Camaro. Its got design cues (here we go on the 2nd theme) and its true to the concept of the predecessors, but its not living in the past. Its fresha nd moden looking but you know instantly what its supposed to be. If you want a 1970 - 1974 Challenger go buy one. I can't understand all the excitment over it. Now what I do like are stong styling cues and the way these carry forward and how each make and model should be destinct and have identity and character. Alfa Romeo are very good at this and their cars are always stylish, maybe not "retro" as we'd call it, but they have identity and interest. Cadillac are another one who I give 2 thumbs up to. You may think their cars are ugly and the BLS seems like a waste of space to me (an "American" car which isn't even on sale in America? LOL) but the cars have stong brand, strong styling and they do what they set out to do. To me thats what its all about. I can tell that I like the Cadillac CTS-V now, and I'll still like it in 10 or 15 years time. Pre-retro? Its said one of the chief reasons the GTO failed in the US was lack of styling, lack of idenifying cues, lack of heritage. Maybe, a lot of it is due to the price of the thing, $10K more than a Mustang just never was going to sell, no matter how much Pontiac protested that it wasn't a market rival to the Mustang, thats what *everybody* compared it to. Talking of the Mustang I really don't know whether I love it or hate it. Its certainly been a huge sales success and got brand recognition globally, even with non-car people. 10/10 for that. But I've sen real ones and they look a bit like a plastic version of the original, perhps more owing to the 'orrid Mustang II of 1974-1978 than the glory years of the 1st gen '67 - '69. To me the moderns which really stand out are the ones which stand on their own two feet as a design, have herritage embodied in them, but don't rely on cheap passing fad styling tricks to make them "funky". The Fiat Multipla has been mentioned, how about the Renault Avantime and Vel Satis... Even the Megane? great stylish design which could only ever be French!
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 13, 2006 13:55:35 GMT
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*Puts on bullet proof jacket* Retro values? How about the early povo-spec Ford Ka? Honestly! Very basic, but excellent handling, straightforward "Endura-E" OHV engine, funky styling and plenty of thoughtful interior touches giving some useful extra storage space. Plus they were expensive when new (although cheap now), and there are some rusty ones about. Bit like the original Mini, eh? Ah, the real successor to the orignal Mini. I like Ford Ka. There are design cues in ther from the 105E apparently, I read a interview with one of the designers, the 105E was the inspiration for the Ka.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 13, 2006 13:57:08 GMT
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PT Cruiser - that even has a clone now - check out the Chevrolet HHR!
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 13, 2006 13:58:41 GMT
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Ah, the real successor to the orignal Mini. I like Ford Ka. There are design cues in ther from the 105E apparently, I read a interview with one of the designers, the 105E was the inspiration for the Ka. No no, I think you are confused. Ford used the engine from a 1960's Anglia in the KA(ck)
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Jul 13, 2006 13:59:00 GMT
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Retro values?? Poor build quality, bad safety, rust, non-recyclable and poor environmental impact?? Surely all the Chinese built cars embody all those retro values right now : driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22749-1783784,00.html
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Jul 13, 2006 14:04:41 GMT
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Oh, and another thing, peole going on about they'd like an old car but can't put up with the unreliability.... Most people I know with modern cars suffer as many if not more break downs than I do, and when they do its usually a huge bill to sort it out.
A properly maintained older car is just as reliable as a averagely maintained modern one.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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