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Jul 12, 2006 21:23:04 GMT
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ok, so I'm just getting myself kitted out for painting at home and at uni. so far ive got an air fed mask, some spesh goggles for painting with tear off strips, and i will be qcquiring a devilbiss HVLP spray gun. I'm also looking for a compressor, but to run a HVLP spray gun i need a big one! apparently i need a belt mounted filter thingy for use with 2k paint and my airfed mask but ive no idea what its called to search for one?
ta. ;D
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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paint spraying help wanted!!slater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Jul 12, 2006 21:30:17 GMT
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You need a cabon filter in the system somewhere, otherwise the compressor breaths in the fumes and pumps them straight to you! not nice!
Athough i cant see whay it wouldent be ok if the compressor was outside of your spray booth where there are no fumes (well very little anyway!)
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Jul 12, 2006 21:45:58 GMT
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well my compressor will be in the garage where i will be spraying, don't quite have a booth at home! i need one of the blet mounted type things, ive seen the replacement carbon cartridges on ebay but not the actual filter packs
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Jul 12, 2006 21:48:29 GMT
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Don't get a HVLP if you are getting a Devilbiss. Those are pro guns and they need a pro compressor to drive them. I was looking at them (importing from the USA where they are cheaper) but the air requirements were like 16 CFM. The airfed mask will probably be what about 5- 6 cfm? So you need 22 CFM FAD, now just to confuse matters compressors are rated in absolute CFM not FAD, the FAD is usually quoted somewhere in the spec. Think of it like BHP at the flywheel vs BHP at the wheels... You'll probably need at least a 5HP compressor to drive a pro HVLP gun and the mask. Unfortunately the largest compressor you can drive off a domestic single phase supply is a 3HP. Mine is a 3HP 14.7 CFM unit (about 11.3 cfm FAD from memory)
Your best bet is to get a LVLP gun if you want LP technology. Devilbis GTi with the Transtech system (110 air cap, 1.3 fluid tip) will do you nicely, uses about 6 or 7 CFM from memory. Nice gun, about £300 +VAT retial but you can get them cheaper of eBay but make sure you're getting the Transtech one as people sell the US spec HVLP ones too and they are too air hungry.
Some pro painters I have spoken to reckon good old fashioned HP (high pressure) guns give a better result and are nicer to use. They just don't meet the environmental standards a 'professional body shop needs to meet. I have used the old school Devilbiss JGA before and its a lovely gun. Only uses about 4 cfm with a 1.4 fluid tip too. Beware there is a USA model of this gun which appears on eBay which is HVLP and uses like 12-13 CFM IIRC.
Your airfed mask will also need a "breathable air supply control". Being a dumbass I thought that all the filters would come with the mask but they don't, plus you need a good inline air dryer so you're not breathing condensation and oil vapour from the compressor. Hense I have not yet actually used my air fed mask! (and mine has the carbon filter on the belt strap)
As slater says best thing is to put the compressor outside the workshop to get fresh air for it, this will preserve the life of the motor and it will also give better results (less contamination, less condensation and a better chance of getting breathable air through it.)
Wish I could just have stuck with using celulose and 1K. 2 pack sucks. If you stay away from isocyanate catalysed 2K you don't need the air fed or any of that stuff.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 12, 2006 22:05:46 GMT
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well, i don't actually have £300+VAT to spend on a spray gun, so the one ive been given for helping a mate out will have to do. to be fair, i doubt i will be using it at home much at all, more at uni/work where we have all the airlines with water traps/oil filters etc I'm just short of the carbon filter on the belt strap. the compressor we have is a massive computer controlled affair.
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Jul 13, 2006 14:16:01 GMT
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Well you should be fine then. The Devilbiss FLG3 is a good gun and the HP version of that works well on a home sized compressor should you need one that does. Spraying at home is becoming more and more of a problem all the time anyway, so if you have other facilities to use then you are best to go that route. I'd check that you have all you need with a belt filter as my belt filtered mask definitely states that it requires a breathable air supply (the filter on the belt is basically to filter solvent, not compressor oil etc.) It may seem I'm a bit health & safety obsessed, but its only because I care
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 13, 2006 17:11:28 GMT
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the system we have has an oil and water trap before the plugs on the side of the booth, so that should be alright. the gun ive got is a "Finish Line" one, I'm guessing thats what "FL" stands for ;D
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Jul 13, 2006 17:19:00 GMT
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Dig it up, slam it and drive it.
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Jul 13, 2006 21:42:38 GMT
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I've heard good things about the fancier Earlex sprayers and some of the other specialist all in one HVLP units.
I have a cheap (£70 RRP) Earlex and I've used it for primer and its fine for that, might be OK for gloss too. Might try it next time I'm doing celly.
yup, FLG3 is Finishline.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 13, 2006 22:50:08 GMT
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do we recommend gravity fed over suction fed? or is there a time and place for both?
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mercmad
Posted a lot
Flush Hard,it's a long way to McDonalds.
Posts: 1,740
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Jul 13, 2006 23:09:47 GMT
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By a cheap gravity fed HVLP gun off ebay for Primer and only use it that and don't attempt to use it for finish paint. You don't need too big a compressor,only about 13CFM.I bought two from ther local trading newspaper ,used and very cheap.One big 13CFM for the paint,and the small one just for the mask. Both sit out side the shed/booth. I have a suction fan bought from a demolition place for the extractor at the other end. HVLP uses less paint,and as a result you don't have clouds pof noxious fumes comming off the car,so the fumes extracted from the shed smell really bad but the volatile organic compounds are less dangerous to the next door neibour... ,who i always make sure is not around when I paint. Finish coat is best applied with a HVLP gravity gun too,but look for IWATA brand guns,they are available on ebay used every so often . Why? It is all the shape of the pattern.Iwata Pro guns spray a suasage shape pattern ( averaging) 9" long,and once you start applying that expensive paint you will realise the wisdom in having a pattern like that.( tried hiring a gun?) Devilbiss guns today are not very good compared to them and the spray pattern is shorter meaning that the coverage and overlay required for 2 pak paint is harder to apply .leading to runs ,orange peel and other mistakes. I suggest you go here and get a better idea of how it's done by other DIY folks.I learn something all the time I go here,and I painted my first car in 1969. www.autobody101.com/
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2006 23:11:44 GMT by mercmad
Many years ago I changed my driving style to cope with rising fuel prices; I have now reached the stage where I am contemplating keeping my eyes shut in order to lower wind resistance.
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Bioshock
Posted a lot
It aint hip to be square.
Posts: 1,861
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Jul 13, 2006 23:20:34 GMT
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Am I wrong in thinking that paint shops wont sell you 2-pac paint if you aren't someone in the trade? health & safety? Doesn't make sense to me mind,you'd think people should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to savvy
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Almera GTI = ugly bird who turns out to be great in the sack = Win
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mercmad - good link, not seen that before. I nearly mentioned the IWATA guns but they seem harder to get over here at the right price. A lot of the custom painters use/recommend them. I have a mate who works for DeVilbiss though I use an eBay cheapy "HVLP" gun for primer as I don't like to mix catalysed and uncatalysed paints in the same gun. I've used it for clear coat as well. I save the Devilbunny for basecoat really as thats the layer that really needs to go on right. I'd like a decent primer gun one day and will probably shoot the clear on the Ventora with the Devilbiss, just make sure my clean up is 100% really I guess. I'd also thought about the 2 compressor approach, but I was advvised they shold be run off separate ring mains and such and I've killed electric supplies in the home before by overloading so I was nervous about this. Plus I don't have the separate compressor budget... Gravity fed vs. suction feed: some specialist paints require one or the other according to their spec sheets. Barcoat for example states it needs a suction gun. Also flake is better in a suction gun as you need to put some nuts or ball bearings in the cup to agitate the flake as you spray and in a gravity gun these can block the feeder. However gravity feed often uses less air like for like which is helpful for those of us with small compressors at home. I also find that the gravity feed feels more manuouverable to spray with, although they do tend to be a little lighter which also probably helps. I have both styles at home in both HP and HVLP for various jobs andbecause I've just acquired stuff over the years The current paint regs and H&S put all the responsibility on the user, ie the person who buys the paint. Anyone can go buy 2 pack paint. It says "for professional use only" on the can and the data sheet but that is purely to cover their backsides from liability should you cough your guts up after poisoning yourself and try to sue them. However, the H&S and environmental compliance is being moved onto the suppliers with the new regs. This is where stuff is going to get much harder for us DIY painters. Sales of even low VOC paints are being banned. The new compliant paints are waterbourne and UHS basecoats. Waterbourne needs a booth with negative pressure extraction and special driers in the airline. Peolpe I've asked have muttered stuff about "so long as you have 2 cubic meters or air per minute at the extractor you'll be fine." Extractor? You mean the open garage door? LOL. UHS basecoats need to be cured with heat, so without an extraction booth and an oven you can't use this stuff. Howver cellulose will continue to be available its just that it will be illegal to paint a car with it! tell them you have half a dozen fridges to respray and its legit. I'm confused as to when the new laws are coming in I've heard 2007 and 2010 and some suppliers were saying mid 2006 was when they were dumping sales of "non-compliant" paints. Thing is that thesenew regs and new materials are forcing a number of smaller bodyshops to close down as they cannot afford to modernise to meet the new requirements for these new paints. However SMART repairers will continue to use 1K and air dryable basecoats as far as I can tell because theres no other way for them to operate. A number of the OEs are now using a dry paint system very similar to powdercoating and I've heard of bodyshops in the USA now using this technology. Again, this is pretty much impossible for the home user to set up for. I think I might go back to the traditional paints anyway, I've had nothing but agro with 2 pack.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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so youve been using celly primer under 2k paint???
in my experience thats a recipe for disaster! we painted a Porsche 356 like that and it kept crazing the top coat, because the primer underneath was drying at a different rate to the colour
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Jul 14, 2006 12:03:34 GMT
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nope. I've used 2K primer on the Ventora, and HS basecoat and I have a 2K clear to go on.
I have used HS basecoat over celly primer before and cleared it with 1K and that works fine. As does 1K clear over cellulose basecoats.
I like HS basecoat. Covers well and gives a nice finish with no real problems. I didn't much like the 2K primer, celly seems just to go on smoother and need a lot less rubbing out. I'm not looking forward to the 2K clear either. Everyone tells me I'll "never look back", but thats what they said about the 2K primer and as far as I can tell its just more expensive and more hassle.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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