|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 15:32:30 GMT
|
|
If anyone can help or advise, I'd be very grateful. I am trying to find a live axle which has a tall diff, but with the smallest casing possible.
English axle is the one I've been looking into the most, but the smallest (tallest) diff ratio I can find so far is a 3.54
I know MGB/MGC diffs are physically quite small, but the taller ratios (3.07) are very hard to find and command quite a premium.
If anyone has any suggestions I would be very grateful. The taller the better really!
Many thanks.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 15:56:38 GMT
|
|
After doing some calculations I'll ideally be needing something between 2.8:1 or taller (up to 2.5:1)
If anyone does know of any diffs with this kind of ratio, again in as small a casing as poss, I'd be very, very grateful.
Many thanks.
|
| |
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 16:07:09 GMT
|
|
I think you'll stuggle. Are you talking small as in narrow or the actual size of the diff housing to be tiny?
Don't think i've seen anything sub Ford 9" that has anything taller than 2.8"
Matt
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 16:43:42 GMT
|
Yeah....it's the size of the diff housing that's important. Dez seemed to think that some of the Ford auto's with english axles came in tall ratios but the only thing I can find online is reference to 3.54 being the tallest. Quite a long way from where I need to be  |
| |
|
|
B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 19:12:21 GMT
|
|
Reliant Robin 750cc and Kitten van..........Axle ratio = 3.545/1
Reliant Robin 850cc, Kitten and most Rialto's........... Axle ratio = 3.23/1
Reliant Rialto 2..............Axle ratio = 2.78/1 The Rialto 2 was a different animal to the others and only had a short production run in the early 1980's. Mostly on 'B' and 'C' registrations, these cars were fitted with higher compression engines that Reliant designated the 'Economy' engine and enthusiasts dubbed the 'yellowtop' due to the colour of the rocker box. Any genuine Rialto 2 engine can be identified by the letter 'E' stamped at the end of the engine number. The axle ratio differed from the other models and the diffs can sometimes be identified by the letter 'B' stamped on the diff casing.
cough.....
i did mention reliant....
si
|
| |
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 19:18:24 GMT
|
|
How strong are the Reliant axles, bearing in mind that the new engine makes double the power and triple the torque as standard, in a vehicle that probably weighs 3 times as much.
I'll keep an eye out in the scrappers for one just incase.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 19:54:39 GMT
|
|
Sunbeam Tiger has a 4HA axle with a 2.88 ratio. quite a narrow axle already but probably rare and quite pricey. a lot of Jags had that ratio. will a Scimitar axle with a Jag 2.88 ratio be small enough?
the 3.54 Ford English axle ratio is a sought after ratio so you will pay a premium for it. i think that ratio was the RS Escort and Capri ratio.
|
| |
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:13:32 GMT
|
|
to clarify, by 'small', we mean small diff casing because of clearance issues- not narrow width. width isnt really an issue at all, I think anything 52-56" is fine.
I have a scimmy 4ha axle here, and tbh the diff casing is nigh on as tall as a 9" ford. I think the ring gear is about 8.5" in a 4ha? I need to measure accurately tomorrow to compare all of them, but I'm fairly sure its quite big. i have a 9" ford, a chevy 10 bolt, a scimmy 4ha and an english here i can compare back-to-back, and the english is substantially smaller than the others.
one other stipulation is it needs to be able to take 13" wheels. the brakes on se6 axles are too big, theyll only fit inside 14"s. you can fit 13s but you need to fit the earlier smaller brakes.
the other totally different option is to use a twin A-arm IRS setup so the diff clearance become less of an issue. but that will throw up a load more issues, mostly concerning A-arm lengths and camber changes, and CV operational angles. and bolt pattern. plus it still needs to have a 2.8 or lower ratio. I cant think of anything that has the slightest possibility of being right except a jag IRS, but I don't think they can go very low at all can they?
as they have a low operational angle cos they use UJs instead of CVs.
|
| |
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2011 20:29:58 GMT by Dez
|
|
v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,832
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:20:40 GMT
|
|
Auto 2.8 capri Atlas. that may be a 3.08,
Auto mustang 8" may be in the 2.8s not sure on that, but I had a 8" with some very tall gears. lots of yanks run those sorts of ratios, have a look at the volvo range too,
|
| |
Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:22:39 GMT
|
|
channel the jag IRS's diff into the chassis/body?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:27:46 GMT
|
|
floor choppage is not an option. we cant cut into any of the centre 18" or so. outside that and within the arches is all fair game- in fact the arches are huge to start with anyway.
it has to fit under the unmodded floor, so either has to be a live axle with a small centre section, or an IRS setup with some good articulation.
ive got a chevy 10 bolt axle thats 2.77 ratio, and fits the bill in all other respects, its just the diff is pretty darn large.
|
| |
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2011 20:28:28 GMT by Dez
|
|
B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:35:09 GMT
|
|
jag irs is same diff as 4ha but the and inbord discs so maybe a bit big..
although they don't have top arms so thats a bit of extra clearance..
how strong is a reliant axle??
dunno I had a car and gave it hell everyday could drop the clutch everyday and do 200m burnouts and never broke... but then the car wieghs nothing and only 40hp...
but tbh yes its a heveyer vehical with more power totque but an auto should mean it give it less of a hard time..
trying to think of axles?? need auto type really with the gearing you want..
chevette auto?
dolomite auto? 1850 - Auto 3.27:1
marina auto? All 1275 saloons & coupes ran 4.11:1 rear axles, some commercials also used this ratio and others 4.55:1.
1.7/1.8s all used 3.63:1.
dunno I will think a bit more..
si
|
| |
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2011 20:43:16 GMT by B-8-D
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:55:58 GMT
|
Thanks for the ideas guys. As Dez has said, it's the casing size that needs to be as small as possible (as mentioned in the first post) but a tall diff ratio is essential. Dez, after talking earlier I have found that the E36 Compact 318tds has a ratio of 2.79 - something to think about perhaps?? Having said that, the Reliant diffs are another possibility if they can stand up to 85bhp and 165nm of "torques" (deliberate Clarksonism there  ) |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:57:37 GMT
|
|
so. are you needing clearance between the diff and the body rather then diff and tarmac?
then IRS must be the best way to go? just need to find a nice ratio
some nissan 280zx's have r180 3.3:1
|
| |
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 20:59:12 GMT
|
|
ivee been researching J IRS stuff, nostly nissan as ive familiar with their setups. seems to range from 4.6-3.5 though.
as we discussed earlier, bimmer sus can largely be discounted as its single arm with silly camber changes, but maybe fitting a beemer diff into a skyline/s14 subframe isnt such a daft idea?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 21:04:52 GMT
|
but maybe fitting a beemer diff into a skyline/s14 subframe isnt such a daft idea? Funny you said that....while I was looking into the BMW ratios I was wondering about the feasability of putting one make of diff into a different subframe. The whole Jag IRS thing has merit because I seem to recall the shafts are the same length as the arms (i.e. continual camber) Surely there won't be that much effect on the UJ's over the travel we're expecting? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 21:09:24 GMT
|
don't worry about excessive camber or toe on semi trailing arm suspension. you just need to slot the trailing arm mounting holes to correct any issues edit take this  and add some of these   |
| |
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2011 21:16:12 GMT by Al Ramone
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 21:16:02 GMT
|
|
bruce, its about the maximum operational axle in relation to the height of a diff housing.
a UJ maxes out at a maximum of about 20 degrees- some as little as 15.
whereas a UJ will continue to work up to at least 60degrees- some as much as 80.
the higher the diff sticks up above the drive output line, the more operational angle you need- if that makes sense?
thats why you rearly see UJs used on driveshafts, as they're so short in relation to the wheel travel. they're generally only used in props, where youll have as much as 3x the length in ralation to the diff movement- if that all makes sense?
al,
I'm finding it hard to explain without giving out too much info, but we need the wheels to stay constant(or a small change, say 3 degrees) over an operational length of at least 6"- thats at least twice what most lowered cars would have, and afaik not possible on semi-trailing arms, hence saying it needs to be live axle or twin A-arm.
|
| |
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2011 21:18:48 GMT by Dez
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 21:16:21 GMT
|
Auto 2.8 capri Atlas. that may be a 3.08, Auto mustang 8" may be in the 2.8s not sure on that, but I had a 8" with some very tall gears. lots of yanks run those sorts of ratios, have a look at the volvo range too, A 7 1/4 inch diff out of a Dodge or Plymouth A body (Valiant, Dart, early Barracuda) might be the ticket if you can find one. Most would have had a 2.76 ratio. They aren't terribly strong but were available behind slant sixes and small displacement V8s. The sure grip version is stronger than the one-legger but is as rare as hens teeth. |
| |
1995 Range Rover 4.0
1995 BMW 320i Saloon
1989 BMW 325i Touring
1991 Mercedes 300TE-24
1991 Mercedes 190e
1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
|
|
B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
|
|
Jun 29, 2011 23:04:51 GMT
|
Auto 2.8 capri Atlas. that may be a 3.08, Auto mustang 8" may be in the 2.8s not sure on that, but I had a 8" with some very tall gears. lots of yanks run those sorts of ratios, have a look at the volvo range too, A 7 1/4 inch diff out of a Dodge or Plymouth A body (Valiant, Dart, early Barracuda) might be the ticket if you can find one. Most would have had a 2.76 ratio. They aren't terribly strong but were available behind slant sixes and small displacement V8s. The sure grip version is stronger than the one-legger but is as rare as hens teeth. ive got one.... and its a sure grip one.... its not that small though iirc si |
| |
|
|
|
|
[*]
[*]
)