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Jun 19, 2011 17:32:19 GMT
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I believe this "problem" has just started. Haven't noticed it before.
When I turn the engine off, it sounds like the fuel pump is still running. Feeling a fuel pump, "confirms" fuel is being pumped round, well it sounds like it.
Disconnecting the battery, pump stops. But then starts again as soon as I connect it again, so have no real idea what's up.
So have left it unconnected until I find out what's happening.
Car is a mk1 golf running a polo GT engine btw.
Any help, much appreciated.
Cheers
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Jun 19, 2011 17:56:50 GMT
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Could be the relay or a short somewhere. Try fitting a new relay and take it from there.
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1989 Mini MG 1275 ~ 1987 VW Polo ~ 1989 Citroen 2CV ~ 1998 VW T4 ~ 2006 Volvo XC70
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Jun 19, 2011 18:08:51 GMT
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aye, my dad said that. just need to find out where it is! lol
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Jun 19, 2011 18:15:51 GMT
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Could be the relay or a short somewhere. Try fitting a new relay and take it from there. I would tend toward the latter of those two but as relays are cheap and easy to replace it might be an idea to change it if only to rule it out. My bet is that the short will be in the wiring for turning the pump on and off for different fuel demands. Is the engine injected or carburated? Could be an Issue with the engine speed sensor. If its not sending a signal the ECU may try to compensate by providing extra fuel. |
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Jun 19, 2011 18:44:32 GMT
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I'd say it is most likely the relay. It sounds as though it has welded the contacts together in the "on" position which is why you are getting permanant pumping even with the ignition off. I can't help with its location as your car is converted but iirc you should be looking for a largish dark green relay. one small caveat - relays often fail because the pump is drawing too much current so don't be too surprised if that packs up next  cdtc - you are talking drivel again (Paul!) How can it be the ECU/speed sensor if the pump runs with the car switched off? edit.. Also, "engine speed sensor"? Like, a crankshaft sensor then? So how is it running at all? |
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Jun 19, 2011 20:58:20 GMT
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No ECU I've ever worked on works like that though. The fuel system is run from the same crank sensor derived pulse as the ignition and the tacho. Also, you just don't get a RPM sensor at all except on elderly mechanically pumped diesels (with a revcounter)
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Jun 19, 2011 20:59:09 GMT
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Oh aye, that'd be handy in a crash, 'Hmm, according to my speed sensor the engine seems to have inadvertantly stopped, better carry on pumping the juice just in case it hasnt though'
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Jun 19, 2011 21:20:13 GMT
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lol. polo gt engine thats the multi point inj. 1300 digifant engine. they don't even have a crack sensor as such. so your wroong there! (lol, paul is it?) but sorry, apart from that...... id have to look at a wiring diagram. I suspect (read guess).... the signal from the dizzy/tci unit will be the pick up for the "engine running" signal to the ecu. then the ecu will switch the pump on via an ignition live and an ecu switched earth ("engine running/cranking") to the relay. I think these also prime up for a couple of seconds when you put the ignition on too?? simple 4 pin relays are easy to test but I think they are more complicated than that on these as they do more than simply switch in the fuel pump.... as I said, I'm not too familiar..... you say the the pump runs with the key out of the ignition? thats doubly wrong then, as not only shouldnt there be an earth to the relay (as its not running), there also shouldnt be a switched live to the relay either as the ignition isnt on.....  ? this engines in a mk1 golf? soooo, its wired up wrong AND theres a fault with it? |
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2011 21:22:26 GMT by murran
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Jun 19, 2011 21:27:57 GMT
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a crack sensor?
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Jun 19, 2011 21:30:05 GMT
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DUMMY SPIT NO. 4!!! Surely a world record!
He'll be back in a day or two under another name no doubt.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Jun 19, 2011 21:39:15 GMT
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crack = crank. ;D
what I'm on about is.... when you stall the engine the engine stops..... earth to the relay dissapeers so the fuel pump relay switches out.
when you turn the ignition off the switched live dissapeers..... fuel pump relay switches out.
someones been lazy and wired switched live to the fuel pump relay to a perm live. and theres a fault where the relay is finding a solid ground somehow, insted of the ecu switched ground from the tci unit/dizzy.
*this is all speculation from the fault described, I havent looked at a wiring diagram or the car itself. assuming the relay is ok, this is my guess!*
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2011 21:41:47 GMT by murran
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Jun 19, 2011 21:42:25 GMT
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^ I was assuming pretty much the same thing seeing as the car is a conversion, Switch side of the relay is permanant live. There is also the possibility that the relay isn't up to the switching load and that is why it has failed.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Jun 19, 2011 21:44:41 GMT
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the fault has only just arisen, so surely it can't have been wired up wrong?
the pump does prime.
when i turn the key to the ignition point (i.e. just before engine start) the "tone" of the sound changes.
sounds almost as if the pump turns "more on" if that makes sense
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Jun 19, 2011 21:55:04 GMT
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id need to look at the car and a wiring diagram before saying any more really.
theres too much guess work.
by wired up wrong, i mean the ignition switched live side could have been put to a perm. live from when the conversion was done.
the fault with the ecu switched earth being there all the time could be the recent fault.
this wired up wrong thing could have damaged the relay/ecu, as the perm live at the realy will do its best to find an earth (however weak the earth may be) however it can.....
this has me intrigued.... do you live near sheffield?
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Jun 19, 2011 22:09:51 GMT
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in newcastle atm at uni. originally from manchester
tbh it could have been wired up wrong. there's a few things with the conversion which "haven't been done right"
i (well my dad) bought the car as is.
hopefully, when i get my uni project done, i', going to strip most of the car down, clean it up etc. and probably sort out the wiring (not looking forward to it whatsoever lol)
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Jun 19, 2011 22:13:04 GMT
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Well, I'm in Stanley near Durham and already help out several forum members, so feel free to pop over sometime.
PM me for details.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Fuel pump not turning off?stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jun 19, 2011 22:21:09 GMT
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IIRC they relay is in the scuttle tray on the passenger side, I might be wrong though would have to double check mine and its raining lol. Does sound like that could be the problem though.
Matt
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Jun 19, 2011 22:24:04 GMT
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lol, I'm not driving to newcastle to satisfy my curiosity. i'll have a look at the diagram at work and suggest things to check.
as for where the fuel pump relay is on it.... what fuse box does it have? polo or mk1 golf? its anyones guess really!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Fuel pump not turning off?stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jun 19, 2011 22:32:41 GMT
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Polos have the old European style fuse box in the scuttle tray.
Matt
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Jun 19, 2011 22:48:08 GMT
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lol, it's ok murran
it has the golf fusebox, passenger side footwell.
although there are a couple of relays and fuses in the scuttle tray on the passenger side, which look conversion-esque
i'll have a look in the morning, take some pictures.
how would i go about testing the relay? a multimeter job?
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?
