Snoozin
Posted a lot
Toyophile
Posts: 1,557
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Been a while since I actually started a thread on here but... Me and a friend have been having a heated discussion over ratlook cars. It sort of stems around the form vs. function debate, in one corner I am arguing that ratlook (from a point of view that it is deliberate) is prioritising form over function, as surely the majority of owners in current times go out and modify in pursuit of the ideal ratlook for a vehicle. In the other corner, my friend argues that ratlook comes about as compromising form in the pursuit if function. I agree to a point, that this might have been the case once upon a time, but nowadays, is it the case? Discuss
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Nick
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,483
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i rat look is the biggest overused over something other term lately, to me rat is just something that looks curse word because it is curse word and the owner cant be bothered/afford to sort out the looks department and concentrates on the stop/go/handling.
lately though people seem to be putting so much effort into "rat look" when they might aswell put just as much effort into having a sexy paintjob etc.
don't get me wrong i do love the way a lot of those F*cked uplooking hot rods are but i would never go to so much effort myself. like purposely making it look dated and sh*t on
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idea stolen from rattely eddie.
this weeks car count "5"
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Rat - form vs. functiontigran
@tigran
Club Retro Rides Member 142
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No. Most people nowadays spend a lot of time achieving a rat look - originally it was meant to save time and money. I am talking about the oh-so-keen dub scene and their love of painting on rust (ffs!). Mine will be rat simply because I have no cash to pay a lot of money for a nice paint job so will just spray it with cans of matt black. Also I don't give a rats ass what other people think of the car.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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It does get somewhat over-used IMO. Whatever happened to that chevette-owning lad on here who used to bang on about his rat-euro-look Rover 414i - Essentially a knackered old banger with a roofrack. Rats work best when they are cars in a 'transitional' stage, i.e. all the hard work (welding engines etc. is done) and it's awaiting the final push. Not sure about this painting on of rust. Seems a bit daft really. But a proper rat is proper cool, end of.
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No. Most people nowadays spend a lot of time achieving a rat look - originally it was meant to save time and money. I am talking about the oh-so-keen dub scene and their love of painting on rust (ffs!). Mine will be rat simply because I have no cash to pay a lot of money for a nice paint job so will just spray it with cans of matt black. Also I don't give a rats ass what other people think of the car. Pretty much agree with that. IF the yellow 240K ever sees the road I think it will look a bit ratty, but that's because I cannot justify the money to have its bodywork done properly. I'll try and make up for it with its stance and detailing* *In my head, likelihood is it will just sit there for another year or two.
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Odin
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,406
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Well originally I guess rat look stemmed from the whole 'power not paint' rod scene, where the cars were heavily tuned to the extent the owner couldn't afford a nice paintjob. Either that, or a nice paintjob was pointless because the car saw some abuse or was a daily driver too.
These days, I guess it's moved on as people realised the cars putting out the biggest power sometimes looked the tattiest. They wanted to give that impression with their cars too, and so 'intentional' rat look was born.
I have no problem at all with original patina - in fact, I really like it. My Golf has patina all over it and various bodged paint repairs. IMO this has a character all of its own. What I don't really get are the people that take a fair condition (maybe even original) paintjob and strip it off to get rust. Sure, it looks cool and I'm in no position to say what you can do with your ride. I appreciate rusty detailing like on bodydrops Nova or that Derby (sorry, I've forgotten who owns it). These aren't rare cars though, and bonnets are easy to find and replace.
So basically, if its ratty because its original, fine. If it's cheap and easy to come by or you 'rat' an easy to replace panel, fine. Don't kill off something rare by encouraging rust somewhere it will be hard to replace just for the sake of looks.
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I think its down to the individual,I went down that route as a statement about my present mindset. I used to pride myself on paint and appearance and even won car of the show at an Opel show in Belgium but i look back and think i used to drive 4 hours to polish a car in a field at some show..... .....fook that. My car is to me about todays throwaway society where if its old or in need of a little resto people just scrap it,yep i left the bonnet to rust after i stripped it bare but only cos it reacted three times in a row after painting it, after all i can buy a whole nova for £50 in the society we live in. I thrive on scrap yards and making things fit not buying custom parts,everything on that car is recycled,the engine,the bench seat,wheels body panels is all from other "scrap"cars which to me is rat in its purest form. Whats the saying "From ignored to adored"
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Last Edit: Jul 6, 2006 23:58:24 GMT by bodydrop
Hitting switches,bitches and ditches!
RELICS C.C suck
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Rat look should be exactly that, a look,.. Underneath should be rock solid, also the engine and running gear should be uprated.
Too many people are now refering to old and busted as rat look... when in fact they are just broken. A barn find car with loads of cool patina on it isn't rat look until its been taken from the barn and mechanically rebuilt. Until that time its just another mashed up old car.
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any excuse i know, but does that mean that my old white imp was 'ratlook'? As i promice i made very little effort toward the bodywork! J
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Last Edit: Jul 7, 2006 8:18:01 GMT by Blown_Imp
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The very definition of rat look as far as I'm concerned : Solid underneath, running an ex-Formula Vee race series engine
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Last Edit: Jul 7, 2006 8:27:59 GMT by HoTWire
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phatphord
Part of things
Scorpilow
Posts: 674
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also comes from the bike scene,way before all the vw boys and rodders started thinking it was cool. Look back through the 80s and you will have photos of ratty bikes and trikes done as a big fook off to society. The overall intention was to have something that looked as dangerous and wibblepoo as possible,but in reality was maintained to a high standard because the owner knew what the hell they were doing and, like bodydrop says, can work with most stuff they find. All thats dissappearing in todays credit car society and in my opinion,if i build something to have a shabby look to it,its not rat,its just i've chosen to aim my cars styling at a certain period of time and a certain anti-establishment line.Hope that makes sense.
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1994 Ford Scorpio Lowrider um...and some bikes...
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dp
Posted a lot
DP Race Tech
Posts: 1,044
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odin in da house: Well originally I guess rat look stemmed from the whole 'power not paint' rod sceneNot 100% correct, the term Rat stems back to the Rat Bike movement of returning war vets (WW2 & Vietnam) who bought up surplus Army Harleys and since they had strong feelings about the goverment who let them down they started to hang stuff on these flat (or almost no) paint Army bikes to make a statement and the more stuff you had the better, from this an organisation called Hells Angels evolved but that's another story. The term Rat has since been used on bikes & cars that are looking real, well Ratty, but what's True Rat we'll probably debate from here to eternety.... Just yesterday I had about enough of all these Rat, Euro, OEM+, German, Cleaned.be, Retro style Police that live on the Internet, Forums and magazines full of people who must have a style to hang their whole (tiny) world vision on, I would dare to bet that some of the no-life people posting in places like E38, Vortex, Samba (when it's the VAG scene ((there we go again)) or other Forums don't even own a car worthy of the styles they are spouting but I might be wrong on that one to. It's so insanley booooring with all this style that and style this, h*ll why don't people build cars & bikes that suits their wallet & personality? ? I was about to write a topic on this but could not decide where, in here where it's laid back it would be easy to do and no risk of banning, on other Forums I would probalby been either ignored or killed but when I was done thinking it through I just went home, mowed the lawn, downed 5 or 6 Tuborg Classic and decided that I'm still a much better human beeing than those who live their life as OEM+ , wonder with what they mow their lawns...... Today you guys start me up again!!!! S*it!!!! But I'm quite mellow since it's sunny & warm and my Aprilia 1000R Tuono groweled nicely on my way to the Shop today but..... Ponder this: My Skoda Shop Hack is a daily driver / work truck that's basicaly stock, stock motor, stock dash, stock interior but I have added some extras like chrome mirror covers, chrome door handles, extra chrome strips in nose and on tailgate, stock (although Seat) larger rims, lowering springs, chrome exhaust tip and it has a quite nice suede grey paint, if I would call this OEM+ would that be all wrong since it's NO way a Rat Look, would there be a contract on me by the OEM+ Police, the Rat Police would problably arrest me because "it's flat paint but where's the stickers, rust & dents? " and the Euro Police would just frown thier upturned oak green noses at me...... Not to mention my Volvo T22, is it Rat, Retro, HoodRide or? NO it's just a f*cking farm implement..... DP says: Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! I have to contain myself but can I...........
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Last Edit: Jul 7, 2006 8:48:10 GMT by dp
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It's so insanley booooring with all this style that and style this, h*ll why don't people build cars & bikes that suits their wallet & personality? ? I was about to write a topic on this but could not decide where, in here where it's laid back it would be easy to do and no risk of banning, on other Forums I would probalby been either ignored or killed but when I was done thinking it through I just went home, mowed the lawn I felt like this once,... so I wrote the Think Different article
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dp
Posted a lot
DP Race Tech
Posts: 1,044
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hotwire in da house: so I wrote the Think Different article
DP asks (politely): Where can I read that......
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Whats OEM+? I think its quite good fun my cars never quite fit in J
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hotwire in da house: so I wrote the Think Different articleDP asks (politely): Where can I read that...... www.retro-rides.com/articles/thinkdifferent.htmlI never did get round to Project Management Eye For The Car Building Guy .... Maybe I'll get it done this winter.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Well I could say my old Sierra Saphire is 'Rat-look' as it has old faded paint and is lowered 2" on black alloy wheels. However, it is also a genuine old banger and therefore isn't 'Rat-look' but just generally 'Ratty'
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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dp
Posted a lot
DP Race Tech
Posts: 1,044
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blwonimp in house: Whats OEM+?DP says: An offshoot of the VIP style I guess, get it? I don't.....
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Skimmed the past stuff and some great comments. specially like bodydrops comments about throw away society. I'd say it about literally a ratty car. my old c reg Micra in 2001 was a go between after my xr2 was written off. last thing i wanted after a pocket rocket was a 988cc'd old J clunker, At the time it was all i could afford, it had a knackered wing held together with playing cards and rotted bits everywhere, i had a lot of fun in this car, and commuted about 30 mile per day kept it for over 2 years. one day i even had a comedy drag race with my mates Capri!- and lost! LOL so fun weaving in past the commuters in HP mobiles. That car was rat looked pure n simple, it broke it got welded. example; the wing rotted to far. me and MsReanimation had a hot date in the scrap yard and wrenched off a G reg'd wing and it got rivveted on! My mechanic made me get rid, in hind sight with what i know now i'd still have it Some mods can be done to it, i really wish i'd seen the light and fixed up that old micra and made it safer or faster, but this is essentuially how i see it an 'i don't give a damn what you think i'm not keeping up with the Jones' type of attitute IMO.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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My van is what I would consider a rat, not rat look, but a rat. Its not a look.... Basicly, the money I spend on my van, is used in the same way nature spends its time on a rat. I want my van to evolve, to be a machine with purpose and more capable and adaptable than when it left the factory. Nature has caused the rat to evolve, it's an adaptable animal, which underneath its scraggy and scruffy exterior is a complex animal, which (lets face it) will outlast us as a species because of it. So that to me is what "rat" is about. Rat look.... well that's just a load of idiots that don't get it really , I mean painting on fake rust and sanding down good panels to "age them", dig it up, fix it, drive it, do it properly or don't bother
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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