|
|
|
|
|
Hey guys. As I'm sure most of you know I'm in the process of putting a 4G54 turbo engine in the Galant and am getting very close to the stage of having to plumb in the fuel system. I'm pretty sure I can't just use the old system as it has a single fuel pump feeding a double carburetor but changing it to a swirl pot with two pumps is worrying me a little as there's lots more parts to the system as it were. Could you just explain the system to me a little, what pumps would be suitable or what I might have forgotten about that's important to the system. And could someone just confirm the correct piping to use too! HKP sent me this pic a while ago which has helped a lot but it's all very well it saying high pressure fuel pump... haha  I was thinking using the original Galant fuel pump and filter to feed the swirl pot, then out of a swirl pot through filter and then a starion fuel pump.Swirl pot system etc will be mounted in the boot on the opposite side to the battery mounting. Thanks all! This is the big worry for me at the minute. I've got my head around everything else, so once this is cleared I'm mojo'd up to drive right through to the end of the project  Chris  ...have some fuel systems      |
| |
Last Edit: Apr 4, 2011 9:29:38 GMT by Diabolu
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
looking at that diagram, its a similar system that they use on mk3 polos as standard, where you have a low pressure pump (4.5psi) in the tank feeding a fuel accumulator (does the same as a swirl pot) and then the high pressure pump takes the fuel from the accumulator. the pressure regulator on the fuel rail then feeds the excess fuel back to the accumulator. as long as both pumps have the fuel capacity required for the engine it should be fine. you might need to see what the flow capacity is on the original carb pump though.
.. but wait for someone who knows what they are talking about to confirm its ok ;D ;D
|
| |
|
|
30psi
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,024
|
|
|
|
Not sure on what type of fuel pump the Galant had originally (was it a pulse type?) but I'd be tempted to use a small rotary vane type to feed the swirl pot. As for a high pressure fuel pump, that Starion one isn't too cheap really, I'd be tempted to go for a Bosch 044, but this is probably not needed unless you intend to run very high boost. There are Sytec equivalents, this one seems suitable - www.fuelpumpsonline.co.uk/sytec-external-in-line-fuel-injection-pump-otp017-1931-p.asp and is cheaper than the Starion pump. I'd be tempted to hunt around for a pump to save a bit of cash though. As for fuel line you can do this fairly cheaply with just ordinary rubber fuel hose, or you can use braided stuff or go the full hog and use fancy anodised aero fittings. |
| |
1962 Ford Thunderbird 6.4L
1981 Datsun Bluebird SSS CA18DET
1981 Datsun Bluebird SSS SR20DE
|
|
bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,917
Club RR Member Number: 71
|
|
|
|
|
Are you going to track day the car?
I can't see the point of a swirl pot unless you are and even then I've never had one on the Monza and that does a lot of track stuff.
Simple is always best in my book - Just use a Fuel injection pump in place of the original low pressure one - mount it under the car and use the original fuel line to the engine bay - run a returnline back to the tank and pipe it into the tank - there are normally breathers on the tank that can take returned fuel if there isn't a suitable return line inlet
|
| |
|
|
30psi
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,024
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, I guess he can do that and see how he gets on, and then move on to using a swirl pot if necessary. Nothing will be lost by doing that.
Personally though I'd fit a new set of fuel lines as an old fuel line that's only had at most half a bar of pressure in its life may not be too reliable when it sees up to say 8 bar of pressure
|
| |
1962 Ford Thunderbird 6.4L
1981 Datsun Bluebird SSS CA18DET
1981 Datsun Bluebird SSS SR20DE
|
|
bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
|
|
|
|
done this my self before, the swirlpot depends on the style of tank you already have TBH, wide and shallow are terrable for fuel startvation, tall and narrow are the best cos there's less sloshing of the fuel away from the pickup, when i did mine i used the old low presssure solid pipes for the return as the return is under a lot less pressure than the feed (due to the end of it not being tredtricted), for the feed i used (and you will HAVE to use ) high pressure rubber fuel lines, under no curcumstances use normal fuel hose! braided or not it's split appart, i paid under £20 for 5 metres and that was enough to do my cortina and have some left over |
| |
R.I.P photobucket
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was lead to believe with EFI it was advisable to use a swirl pot system. I seem to remember a conversation that it was more a security measure so the system wasn't struggling for fuel to feed to the injectors...? If that's not the case and a swirl pot isn't needed I'd far prefer the single pump option. The original had the pump mounted just under the rear seats... does it have to be mounted lower than the tank or is this an option? I want to run a fuel pump cut off switch to the dash too (added security) As for tracking it. No I won't be. Other than a trip around Nurburgring and possibly Cadwell park, but they won't be an aggressive three wheeling corner lap like your Opel If just one was needed, I'm guessing the pump that 30psi posted would be spot on? (Thanks for that fella, outside searching for 'Starion fuel pump' wasn't sure which way to take the search ) Chris! |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Right... some pics for you of current 'system'  Fuel pump up inside under the rear seats. Feeds back outside and under the car  And the petrol tank.... If I replaced the pipework then and replaced the fuel pump with a suitable one (thanks psi) I could at least get it running like that and then upgrade yes? Priorities at the moment are to get the car on the road with minimal headache for me. I don't mind making everything tidy (as you'll have seen from the thread and the zinc yellow bolts etc) but having it running with the possibility of upgrading later would be great!! So...? fuel pump and fuel linesThanks all! Chris |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
With a turbo engine it is probably advisable as fuel starvation under full boost conditions is bad news. Engine destroying kind of bad news. Whether you get fuel surge depends on fuel tank design but most I've dealt with will get surge if driven enthusiastically with a low fuel level. You can buy a tank but they're not hard to make if you want to save a few pennies. My 510 has one mounted inside the boot, fed by alow pressure pump (SU type) which feeds an external Bosch EFI pump from a Carlton or something. Between the surge tank and the EFI pump I have a Systec pre-filter to stop any debris entering the pump. Click on the pic below to read more...  I built a similar system for my turbo Prairie but that used a much shorter tank which was mounted under the floor...  With regard to flow rates, the low pressure pump just has to keep the surge tank topped up so just about any pump will manage that I've found. Pulse type pumps are a bit noisy though as they run continuously in this kind of application. |
| |
1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rat, that's an epic answer! Thanks bro I have one of those welding canisters in the garage from when I started out... before I bought a cylinder. Could u recommend some hosing? Dibbles |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think I bought the last lot of fuel hose from Merlin Motorsport. They do mocal fuel hose but it's pricey. Even the rubber fuel hose from my local motor accessory shop is okay for EFI fuel pressure.
One other advantage I fogot to mention of using a surge tank is that the outlets on your stock fuel tank will probably be too small for the flow rate of an EFI pump. Having the pump feed and return to a seperate tank solves that problem.
Bear in mind also, that you'll need to wire the low pressure pump to work alongside the EFI pump so that, like the EFI, it stops pumping if the engine cuts out (as in an accident).
|
| |
1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Brilliant. Thanks for the pointer RE the wiring too Having a goosey round Merlin now. |
| |
|
|
ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,638
Club RR Member Number: 225
|
|
|
|
|
Just to throw something else into this....
For the front to back (and back again) fuel lines I'd use 8mm copper/kunifer pipe, like the brake pipes but larger bore, or micro bore central heating pipe.
Put a bit of a flare on the ends to stop the rubber hose popping off.
A bit more hard wearing than rubber pipe.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Chris! Will do Ordering all this now, so you got in just before the debit card details went down! (speaking of which I'd better put some cash in the account tomorrow haha) |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is how my Cortina was running, its got a trip switch from a Sierra in it in case of an accident,  However, don't put stuff in the boot without a proper functional fireproof bulkhead!!!   |
| |
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What was the cause of that?
|
| |
1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We think the casing on the high pressure pump split and damged a wire causing a spark, I had just got home after a giving it run and i could hear an odd noise from the boot, opened it up to have a look and the boot was on fire, from the brief look i had theres was definately something wrong with the shape of the pump, and there was a jet of flame coming from it, but after the fire not much left to examine.
The insurance man said it was probably a pump fault, has seen it before on them but usually they are fitted underneath so they don't take the whole car with them unless your really unlucky.
With no bulkhead in the boot, it took about ten seconds from opening the boot for the rear seats to catch fire, and that was it, to late to do anything about it, with a bulkhead in there closing the boot might have saved the rest of the car.
|
| |
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
*Gulp*
....new pumps it is then!
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If i did it again, i'd build the swirl tank into the mani tank and run the pumps and lines under the car, no need for them in the boot unless your going rallying or offroading.
I was gutted, let the insuarcne company take the whole car even though i probably could have salvaged the cossie lump, gearbox and ancilleries to fit into something else.
Luckily i had bills for everything and i had been keeping a running total plus a photo build on here, financially i got everything back, but they don't pay for your time and they don't compensate for the loss you do feel after spending a few years collecting up parts and building the car.
|
| |
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ouch. I'll certainly look into a firewall, and will definitely now replace the Galant fuel pump aswell as getting a brand new EFI pump rather than a second hand.
Thanks guys.
Still in a mindfield about the hosing to use tho... too many choices and I don't understand which I need.... :/ haha
|
| |
|
|
|
|
[*]
