10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Steering rack help....10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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I am looking for possible racks that I could fit to my 72 Mustang to replace the steering box... The 'proper' conversion jobs that everyone raves about are made by TCP (total control porducts) and look like this the central 'track rod mount' is ideal for juyst attaching to the existing tie rod so making the conversion simples.. Now I dunno about you but these look a lot like a standard mk3 cavalier steering rack? whadda ya think. I'd just buy one to offer up as I cant imagine they'd be expensive second hand but as the stang is LHD I'd have to turn the rack upside down, to make it fit which would make the steering 'entertaining' Here's a couple of photos I found of a homebrew conversion, seems logical, hope you can get your head round what's going on.. Basically what I'm asking is before I go to the trouble of shipping in an Opel rack or similar from somewhere in the EU.. A) can you see a problem with the Opel/Vauxhall rack B) can you think of a better rack to use C) does anyone have anything likely looking they can lend mesell me let me borrow for mocking up?
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Last Edit: Oct 4, 2010 11:44:18 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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v8ian
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Need to see a pic of the GM rack first, bit I did do a conversion similar to this many years ago using a Imp rack,
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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duncr
Part of things
Posts: 40
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I'd imagine width would be a major problem with the GM rack, you need something thats of a similiar or wider width, try a Scorpio/Granada rack, you will also find that the Mustang uses imperial taper on the rod ends instead of our Metric tapers, but a machine shop will sort that out easily enough. other possibilities are maybeMercs or Jags with Racks
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Later Saabs ( so basically GM as well ) are centre steer type. Re the homebrew conversion that is going to flex all over the place , it's need to be made with side stiffening or triangulation ie a U channel would provide support .Those brackets would be bad enough on a manual steer 4 pot car but power steering with an 8 on top...no way. Top u/j angle also looks pretty steep, they won't work past 32 degrees as they start to bind and introduce tight spots, laws of physics, no way round it , believe me I tried You can close couple 2 u/js together so they are back to back, pretty much like the Borgeson 75 degree joint . Steering u/js also have to be phased like propshaft u/js or they will also bind and again create tight spots.
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Last Edit: Oct 4, 2010 13:47:52 GMT by kapri
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v8ian
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Later Saabs ( so basically GM as well ) are centre steer type. Re the homebrew conversion that is going to flex all over the place , it's need to be made with side stiffening or triangulation ie a U channel would provide support .Those brackets would be bad enough on a manual steer 4 pot car but power steering with an 8 on top...no way. Top u/j angle also looks pretty steep, they won't work past 32 degrees as they start to bind and introduce tight spots, laws of physics, no way round it , believe me I tried You can close couple 2 u/js together so they are back to back, pretty much like the Borgeson 75 degree joint . Steering u/js also have to be phased like propshaft u/js or they will also bind and again create tight spots. You have to hope the home brewed version is only in mock-up The only doubts I had about the conversion I did was the steering arms never sat level with the rack, so any loading back from the road wheels had a sort of torque/shear action against the 2 bolts holding the plate in position as the 2 bolts were quite close together, 3-4 inches apart, I think if you could find a rack that had the bolts wider apart than that it would help with stability of the replacement center drag link, Now I'm thinking off the wall here, using a traditional end fitting rear steer rack, remove the ball joints, make and bolt a finger for each end from flat stock facing forward or rearward depending on application, then weld a bar across the fingers, so you now have a bar that mimics the action of the rack. drill the bar so it has the same pickup points as the center drag link, mount the rack so the bar sits in the same place a the drag link, rose joint the ends of the steering arms so they can be bolted thru the bar and you should have a rack that mimics the CDL without bump steer, for applications where the steering shaft input is tight, there is no reason why the rack cant be moved over to clear the engine, and the plate on the rack be drilled with the equivalent offset to put the steering back to center ------------------now clear as mud---good ;D
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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That's what I suggested over on RnS as a method of setting up rack so no bumpsteer, again i'd probably use at least angle as the replacement for the bar. As I keep saying, there's more to a rack conversion that the wheels moving in the correct direction
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Steering rack help....10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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yeah don't worry on the forum i got those of he is just mocking thinks up with those brakets, the rack he uses is of a US cavalier, which having googled it is a completely different thing..
I'll have to investigate the UJ angles, shouldn't be a problem though as hundreds of these cars have racks fitted without problem so there must be a successful way of doing it... I think the main advantage of doing it this way is the original mustang geometry is largely unchanged as you are effectively replacing the box with a rack all the track rods and tie rod stay in the same position..
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Oct 20, 2010 15:55:35 GMT
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I think Audi had the same type of rack on some models (don't remember which ones though), may be wider than Vauxhall maybe?
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,839
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Steering rack help....stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Oct 20, 2010 16:25:14 GMT
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Can't be that difficult to get a LHD euro Cavalier rack from Germany or similar? The only other way to do it is to find a RHD rack that usually has the pivots infront of the ball joint. You could then flip the rack over the LHD and mount it in the Mustang position and it'd still work OK. If you do that with a rear mounted rack the steering feel and geometry would be fine, the wheels would just go the opposite way to the way you're steering lol.
Matt
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Oct 20, 2010 16:47:57 GMT
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I think that I have a spare Mk2 Cav LHD rack if someone needs one.
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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Oct 20, 2010 16:55:11 GMT
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The guy who invented this system and gave it to TCP is one of my best mates, if you need anything answered in particular. The rack is a J-car GM rack. If you want one, I'll mail one to you.
Norm
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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