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Cool project! I havent seen an early Celica for years. Have you considered adding one of the turbo kits once the engines in? That would make it a very exciting drive
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Koos
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Thanks! Oh yeh ... I am definitely going to Megasquirt the motor because I want to put on a later, better breathing, head. After that probably a turbo and some other stuff I'll want to control with a standalone. I'm guessing I'll use Ford EDIS ignition components to control the spark, which I understand pretty well, unless I can be bothered working out the Miata ignition or find a howto online someplace. I am constantly looking for a roadworthy Gen 1 Celica, but they're like hens teeth. I also like the old Coronas too and would buy one if I could find one. Both Celicas and Coronas used to be as common as Escorts, but now I see Lambos more often. This morning, as soon as I loaned a set of steering removal tools from the local car parts store and dropped out the steering the motor almost jumped out. It's now sitting in the back of my truck while I decide what to do with it. Try and get a few bucks for it or just drop it off at the breakers? I guess a craigslist advert costs me nowt and I might get a bite! I went to town on the engine bay, clearing out everything ... except for the throttle which I might just reuse. I also pulled the fuel and brake lines as I was worried the fuel lines contained some fuel (and they did) and I didn't want something to go bewm while I was cutting or welding! The brake and clutch pedals are still in, but I'll pull them eventually. On the far side that's mostly dirt and some surface rust: Here's the pile of stuff that came out: And here's what's staying in case I need it: Gearbox cross member, steering, gauge cluster (have a plan to transplant Miata clocks into it), brake and clutch master cylinders, brake calipers, drive shaft, wipers, and some internal panels to use as patterns later maybe. I then pulled the steering apart. If I need to use it (ie: the Miata experiment fails) I'll want to renew all the TREs and whatnot: Final pic is of a quality ghetto lowering jobbie done by the PO. What an curse word: Next job (after lunch) is to run to the metal scrap place and buy enough steel tubing and locking casters to make a dolly so I can roll the car around. I want to get it outside and hose it off before I start with the fun stuff. I also have some more interior to pull out and then it's about as stripped as it needs to be. One thing I noticed is how similar the suspension on the Celica is to a mid-80s Corolla, like the AE86. Something to remember ... -Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 9, 2009 20:37:40 GMT by Sven
1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Is that engine bay big enough for a V8? :-)
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Koos
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Oh yeh, one guy on here put a RV8 in his ... not my cuppa though. I'm hoping to use it for some track days and autocross races when I have it built and light weight and great handling is much more important than outright torque for that. As an aside, I'm also considering a Toyota 2.0L 3SGE motor and transmission out of a JDM Toyota Altezza. It's the 3SGE Gen 4 'BEAMS' motor. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_3S-GE_engine#Gen_4It comes stock with about 210hp and a 5 speed transmission. ReeBay has engine swaps all day for $2000-$3000 and that would be some very nice NA power in a little light car. But first I'll get the Miata stuff working in it as is and then think about more power. -Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 9, 2009 21:13:29 GMT by Sven
1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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A 4AGE would be more powerful than the Mazda, theres a 5 valve version, and the 4AGZ was supercharged.
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Koos
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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You're right, there are a few engines that are more powerful and I am investigating some of those options. My choice of the MX5, through, was based more on the overall transformation of the Celica using suspension and steering from a car that is renowned for it's handling. The MX5 has an excellent reputation for handling, as shown at any autocross in the US where they are hard to beat by some very expensive machinery. I'm a fan of the 4AGE, not much sounds or goes like it. The later ('99 and up) Miatas had power in the same ballpark as a silvertop 4AGE, at 142hp vs 160hp and about the same torque (116 vs 119 ft lbs). With a later head, a few cheap tweeks (The Knob ... Miata Dave knows what I'm talking about ... ;D) or upgrades to individual bike throttle bodies and a Megasquirt I'm confident I could get more power than a 4AGE for not a lot of money. My thought process was the MX5 suspension and steering all mount to the rear sub frame and front cross member, which I decided to graft onto the Celica. A motor and transmission came up very cheap, that also bolts to the front cross member so I went for it. Horsepower will come later, assuming all this stupidity works. ;D So, onto this afternoons purchases: A 10' length of 2 x 2 x 1/8" square tube, 4 heavy duty locking casters, some 1/4" steel gussets and a sheet of 20g (0.8mm) steel. The latter will be used for the rust repairs and fixing some holes I won't need. If I need more later I'll grab some, it's plenty cheap even with the Chinese soaking up all the scrap. The other parts are for a dolly so I can push the car around without it's wheels and work outside if I want to. I have to run out and do some Christmas shopping so I might not get much more done, but if I can I will knock up the dolly and get it fitted to the car. I did look at some 'telescoping' steel where one piece slides inside another and it was already drilled for bolts so I could use it as uprights and get the car about 3-4' off the ground. They wanted $35 for a 4' length which would have put me at $140 for 4 pieces so I lost interest pretty quick. I have some scrap square tube in stock I can use for bracing and uprights if I want. I might tack weld the dolly to the car to make it good and sturdy. -Steve
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1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Ahh so youre taking the whole Miata running gear! That makes sense.
Interested to see your dolly when its done. I have several wheel-less cars that I need to move around, so may knock up something similar
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Koos
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Dec 10, 2009 19:38:17 GMT
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I started with these pieces of scrap I had in stock to make uprights for the dolly. A 40" length of 2" round, 1/8" wall and a 12" piece of 2" x 3", 1/8" wall. I cut the round in 4 equal(ish) length pieces and cut 2 2.5" pieces of the 2" x 3". I then split the 2" x 3" length ways and sanded off any sharp edges: I then found the centerline of the round tube and the center of the cut down square so I could align the round tube about in the middle of the square: I also cut the long tube I bought yesterday in two, drilled 3/8" holes to match the hole centers on the casters and marked the centerline of the chassis legs of the car onto the tubes for later: I then busted out the welder and welded the uprights: The I got interrupted and had to take a break. I also have to go out and grab some 3" 3/8" bolts and some matching washers. I think I have about an hours work left to get these ready to put in. I also have some 1" square tube I'll use as stretchers to keep the thing from falling down or whatever. I'll have to work out some way to shim this so I can perfectly level the car. I'll probably just slap some small thin pieces of steel under the car on top of the pads. Every time I move the car I will have to level it again as my garage floor is only close to being level. I'm a bit anal, BTW ... ;D More later! -Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 10, 2009 19:44:24 GMT by Sven
1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Dec 10, 2009 22:00:42 GMT
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Good progress Steve.
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"The Knob" is a variable resistor that we used on the old racer to "fool" the computer into thinking it was always cold, thus getting a richer mixture and a timing advance. We did a little test of it, timing 25mph - 60 pulls, and without the Knob, it was 6 seconds. With, it was under 4, so we know it works! It only seems to work with the setup we have, though; a minimal electronics hookup, not running the dash or emissions or anything else. Don tried it on his street Miata (MX-5, sorry), and it did nothing. Kind of a neat little tweak, though. As for Steve's first shot at autocrossing, it was fun to see the improvement during the School, and then applying it on Sunday. The '94 M is not maxed out for autocross, but does okay for a street car. More agression and confidence, and we may have something to work with! One last thing; if the Mazda suspension and lump don't work out, Steve lives about 3 miles from a nice drag strip (Firebird Raceway, where we also autocross on a skidpad), and with some more added bracing, and a different setup, add a V8 and make one crazy 1/4 miler!?!
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The bloke from across the pond...
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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I didn't want to whack off on this thread about this past weekend, boring everyone, but seeing as you brought it up ... ;D It was a 2 day event for me with the first day a drivers school aimed at novices like myself. I had a couple of very good instructors who have been in the game a few years one of whom regularly competes for class wins. I improved the first day from a 50+ sec run with a spin to a 38 sec run in the afternoon, albeit with a very well sorted car but with very worn tires, on the same layout thanks to the pointers from the instructors. The second day was the race (on a different course layout) where I had four runs in the AM (when it was damp), with a best time of 41 secs, and three more in the PM in the dry. Being inexperienced it took me all four morning runs to get a feel for the course but in the afternoon I felt confident enough to push harder and be more aggressive and got down to the mid 38 secs. I felt pretty aggressive in the afternoon but, like Dave says, the video shows I was getting on the gas too late and getting off too early. More experience will bring the confidence to hit the gas early and hard and jump quickly from brake to gas and back. Here are the telltale videos. The first you can clearly see me waiting until the car is almost straight before gassing it: The second would have been my fastest run if that naughty 2nd to last slalom cone hadn't of jumped up and grabbed me, like it did for many others during the day: Going again this Sunday for a run. This time I'll be sharing a ride in my friend Justin's Dodge Charger ... a horsepower monster, but heavy and huge! I loved that the sport is not only almost unrestrained aggression but also somewhat intellectual insofar as one has to be very calculating about where one did poorly and remember for the next time. The limited number of runs without any practice means picking out the pertinent things to aim for is very important during the pre-race course walk. I'm hooked! I think autocross will be a great testing ground for the Celica and I can have something concrete to base improvements. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled tinkering ... -Steve
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1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Cool project! I havent seen an early Celica for years. Mine is a TA21, which (maybe) is a US market version with the 18R-C motor unlike the ROW that seemed to get the 2T motor. Mine has a serial number is in the 52000s. Makes me wonder where they all are? Anyway, more updates on the dolly thingy. I got it finished as I planned it, but I am going to add some more strengthening tubes to the uprights as it's high off the ground and probably puts some weight and leverage on the uprights and I don't want it falling or collapsing when I'm pushing it around. Enough jibber jabber! These are welded to the car. When I'm done I'll cut the welds and sand it off ... the beauty of working with metal: A diagonal to stop the frame twisting: Up and on the casters: Them wheels is off for the last time ... I deserve a cuppa tea in celebration! Took me almost as long to get the car up on it as to make the jolly pain in the backside having to monkey about with the jack ... ;D I feel a lot better about getting under the car now and I can roll it outside to clean up and work on it out there if I want. Success! -Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 12, 2009 5:13:22 GMT by Sven
1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Dec 20, 2009 12:37:39 GMT
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Adios to the stock motor, transmission and other tat: Not much of an update, got the front cross member measured and projected the front hubs upward onto the inner fenders. Bolted on a plate from a bumpsteer gauge I made a couple years ago and made it level: and plumb bobbed the center line up to the inner wing: I did the same on the other side then extended a string between them and marked the center of the string: Measured between the front frame rails where the current cross member mounts and it's about 30" then I measured the bolt holes on the Miata cross member and they're about 32" This shows the top mounting holes on the Miata cross member, one of them is marked with the white paint pen: The cross member extends rearwards and this shows a couple of the rearmost mounting holes: I will stare at it some more, but the current plan basically means I will cut out the Celica frame rails and build new ones from 2x3" square tube. The new frame rails will start at the front at the stock height, turn upwards where the Miata cross member will bolt in (setting the initial front ride height) then turn back down again to connect with the remains of the front frame rails where they disappear under the footwell. I'll also add in additional square tubing connecting the front and rear frame rails. As for the rear, I am tempted to purchase another solid axle and replace the stock one with it rather than try and graft on the rear subframe. This gives me a real possibility of actually getting the car drivable in my lifetime. and leaves the rear of the car pretty stock. A guy grafting Miata front suspension into a MGB GT is using a rear axle from a Chevrolet S10 pickup that has the same center section as a Camaro opening the door to some pretty strong and cheap rear axles and LSDs. The axle flange would be turned down and redrilled to suit Miata wheel PCDs. The axle might need shortening, but I'll look into that and other options too. I'd make up new brackets to use the stock rear control arm mounts on the Celica and also make up some adjustable control arms. Play is stopped right now, but I have plenty of time to think and plan, due to some knee surgery: -Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 20, 2009 12:40:59 GMT by Sven
1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Dec 21, 2009 18:48:01 GMT
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Ouch! is that what Santa brought you for Christmas?
The dolly looks good!
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Koos
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Been coming for a while. Too much running while training for the Ironman. I'm an old fart and running is tough on the old codgers joints. Looks like I'll be getting the other done in a couple weeks.
I bought a couple 6' lengths of 2" x 2", 1/8" wall (50mm x 50mm x 3mm), square tube today. I have been measuring everything and cogitating and I am definitely going to have to do some pretty interesting cutting and rebuilding to the front frame rails to get the car down to 5" of ground clearance and also be able to bolt in the Miata cross member. There are a lot of subtleties to the cross member in terms of suspension geometry (anti-dive, etc.), I want to keep, which will be a lot of work to build if I try and fabricate my own cross member. That is a last resort.
I'm having ideas every time I look at it. I'll keep staring at it over Christmas as my knee recovers and hopefully give it the chop before New Year and try to get the ride height and cross member located about where they need to be.
Maybe I can make a drawing and scan it in so I can show you guys the challenge and get your opinions before I get after it.
-Steve
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1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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Dec 23, 2009 13:23:24 GMT
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ooh I like this project very much, planing a similar transplant, but into an old 323 fun fun fun
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Dec 23, 2009 17:41:22 GMT
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Sweet! I'm bookmarking your 323 thread also and I'll follow along ... ;D
I just had a stiffy thinking about bunging a 300hp 1UZ-FE quad-cam V8 with a manual transmission conversion into the Celica. I better get my act together on the suspension, steering and brakes before I get seduced by the jewelry ...
-Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 23, 2009 17:56:37 GMT by Sven
1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Dec 23, 2009 18:51:32 GMT
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I just caught up with the progress on this, can't wait till the serious work starts though ;D
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Sven
Part of things
Posts: 341
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Dec 23, 2009 20:48:11 GMT
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I just caught up with the progress on this, can't wait till the serious work starts though ;D I love your project, mate! Cracking car, that! I'm ready to get to the good bits, it's getting pretty close now ... I reckon I'll be cutting next week. In the meantime, I dropped out the front suspension. Completely nekkid! Surplus to requirements Need a 22mm spanner to remove the torsion bar, don't have one shockingly! The bay is completely empty now In other news I also extended the hub center line from the rear axle up onto the body so I can drop out the rear suspension too. With the dicky knee everything is 3 times as much hard work but I'll probably get to that tomorrow. Job after that is to set the car at ride height on some fixed jack stands. I'll slap a wheel in the wheel well so you can see the lowness! Brand new set of OEM front and rear window, door and boot lid rubbers arrived all the way from Thailand. They have Toyota stickers all over the packaging. I'm about to buy some fibreglass 'smiley' bumpers, fender extensions and chin spoiler from a geezer in Utah. I took a lot of diagonal measurements on the car from the front hub center lines to various holes on both sides of the body, from other mounting points to stuff and everything is dead nuts on square, or as square as I can read my tape measure. Considering this car is about 38 years old, lived a hard and abused life and a lot of new cars are 1/4" out in places I'm pretty chuffed. I can almost guarantee it hasn't been in anything more than a light bumper tap. Notwithstanding the squareness, I have a plan, got a pack of new Sharpie pens, some new blades for my reciprocating saw and a new spot weld cutter so this car is going under the knife shortly. -Steve
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1969 Chevrolet 4x4 C10 Pickup 1969 VW extended cab pickup (doka) 1980 Volvo 240DL 1995 Mazda Miata MX-5 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel 2011 MK Indy R (building)
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Dec 23, 2009 22:44:54 GMT
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I just caught up with the progress on this, can't wait till the serious work starts though ;D I love your project, mate! Cracking car, that! Cheers ;D this car is going under the knife shortly. lol
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