|
|
Nov 18, 2009 22:56:18 GMT
|
Whichever engine route I am going down, all on my shortlist should mount up to a Ford Type 9 box. No, as I understand it, the Caterham 6 speed type 9 is the golden chalice.
Seen one for sale - Standard type 9 fitting, alloy case, long input shaft, takes standard propshaft, . Ratios are 2.69/2.01/1.59/1.32/1.13/1.00.
Am wondering about buying it because they are pretty rare, even before I get the engine. Not really sure what these ratios would mean to road car....
Any risks in doing this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 18, 2009 23:35:03 GMT
|
why do you need 6 gears? are you planning an ultra high top speed or no torque and a narrow rev band?
|
|
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
Nov 18, 2009 23:54:49 GMT
|
6 gears with a 1:1 top seems pointless in a road car? Gonna be revving the plums off it all the time.
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Whichever engine route I am going down, all on my shortlist should mount up to a Ford Type 9 box. No, as I understand it, the Caterham 6 speed type 9 is the golden chalice. Seen one for sale - Standard type 9 fitting, alloy case, long input shaft, takes standard propshaft, . Ratios are 2.69/2.01/1.59/1.32/1.13/1.00. Am wondering about buying it because they are pretty rare, even before I get the engine. Not really sure what these ratios would mean to road car.... Any risks in doing this? personally, I didnt know there was a 'mass market' 6 - speed type 9 but, this chart of ford ratios may help in working out relative ratios 64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:mIx03FmLPSQJ:www.threekings.me.uk/Minors/gearing.xls+ford+gearbox+ratios&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk
|
|
Last Edit: Nov 19, 2009 0:13:08 GMT by Autofive
Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
|
|
|
|
|
What sort of car is it for? As has already been mentioned, 6 speeds with 1:1 top gear is quite unusual, and really not suited to road use. I would say that they are designed for shaving 10ths of a second on serious Caterhams for circuit or more likely hillclimb use. The spread of the ratios is extremely tight (close-ratio) as well, so it is obviously designed for a very peaky and high-revving hard-tuned motor, the kind of race engine which only makes useful power between 7000 and 8000rpm. Add in the fact that it's expensive, and I wouldn't bother for anything but an all-out track weapon. Just to give you an example, assuming a 195/50R15 tyre and a diff ratio of 3.62:1, which may be different to yours, this is how your speeds would go: RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Gear 500 3.3 4.5 5.7 6.8 8.0 9.0 1000 6.7 8.9 11.3 13.6 15.9 18.0 1500 10.0 13.4 17.0 20.4 23.9 27.0 2000 13.4 17.9 22.6 27.2 31.8 36.0 2500 16.7 22.4 28.3 34.1 39.8 45.0 3000 20.1 26.8 33.9 40.9 47.7 54.0 3500 23.4 31.3 39.6 47.7 55.7 62.9 4000 26.7 35.8 45.2 54.5 63.7 71.9 4500 30.1 40.3 50.9 61.3 71.6 80.9 5000 33.4 44.7 56.6 68.1 79.6 89.9 5500 36.8 49.2 62.2 74.9 87.5 98.9 6000 40.1 53.7 67.9 81.7 95.5 107.9 6500 43.5 58.2 73.5 88.6 103.4 116.9 7000 46.8 62.6 79.2 95.4 111.4 125.9 I used this calculator: precisionsite.com/auto-x/tools/Basically, what all this means is that you will be pulling 3000rpm in fourth gear to get to 40mph! Not only that, but to get down to 2000rpm at roughly 30mph you will need to be in top gear! Then buzzing your way up the motorway at 4000rpm in sixth. Not everyone's idea of relaxed motoring. Not to mention that the gears are so close that on the street you will end up setting off in second all the time and then probably short-shifting to fourth just to save having to row through all the gears.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What about just sticking a really tall diff on it? That way you'd end up with 5 "normal" gears and a 6th as a motorway bonus
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
you get no benefit from extra gears in most normal cars apart from showing off to your mates, for example a 24v lump dropped into a 4x4 sierra makes it go pretty quick, but its 0-60 time is a bit pants, thats because you cant hit 60mph in second gear, if you fit taller wheels or higher ratio diffs the car is quicker up to 60mph because of one less gear change.
Why you would want to fit extra gears in a road car is beyond me, 4 gears and an overdrive for cruising seems to work just about perfectly, more is not always better, in fact i'd prefer a car that would work fine in just one gear to be honest.
|
|
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
|
|
|
What about just sticking a really tall diff on it? That way you'd end up with 5 "normal" gears and a 6th as a motorway bonus The spread between the gears is too narrow for that, as you'd end up with a car which was completely gutless at low speed. A typical 5-speed has 1st gear shorter than 3:1 and top gear overdriven, usually taller than 0.9:1. As you can see, this 6-speed has a much narrower speed range, only about 2/3 the range of a normal road car gearbox, thus you have to choose your diff ratio to give either low-speed acceleration or high speed cruising, not both.
|
|
|
|
v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,766
Member is Online
|
|
|
I think its been missed this is a competition box, not the usual 4+2od box normal 6 speeders turn up as, I'm not sure if this is the Dog box or the Synchro box, its designed to fit behind a small light kin fast car, Caterhams are designed to be just this, I did look at this box about 10 years ago to put behind my RV8, but its not man enough, with the weight of my car its limited to about 200ftlbs before it becomes marginal, If you want a 6 speed there are plenty about, I have one in my shed, low milage, unwanted, from a is200 lexus, Now if you want a rare Holy Grail, 5 speed box from a kit car, I also have a Lotus 5 speed Elan box, so it bolts up behind a Crossflow with a hydraulic clutch, Ratios are curse word, [Austin Maxi] I removed it from a Mk2 lotus cortina I broke a few years ago, which was not standard equipment,
|
|
Last Edit: Nov 19, 2009 9:56:29 GMT by v8ian
Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
|
|
dalek
Part of things
Posts: 62
|
|
Nov 19, 2009 11:09:08 GMT
|
You have a PM Ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 19, 2009 11:18:23 GMT
|
It's quite a short 1st gear on that. You'd need a very long axle ratio like a 3:1, otherwise in top it will be like driving a car with a 4-speed on the motorway, but with a lot more box stirring in between. If you can get a mad axle ratio like that then it'll be a very cool box to have in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 19, 2009 13:37:10 GMT
|
Thanks Guys. Basically with these 10 replies, I have all the info I need, genuinely RR expertise comes up trumps again The box will not be a goer for me then as I was planning on fitting it to my road car. The 6 speeds appealed, for 2, maybe misguided, reasons. 1) The car currently has 6 speeds with the o/d box, and 2) I wanted the 6th gear in the attempt to have a high final gear for relaxed crusing, whilst enjoying close ratios for B road blasts. Seems what I am after, probably doesn't exist, and certainly not from this box.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 19, 2009 13:46:33 GMT
|
Type 9 and MT75 can both have the 5th gear replaced with one from a diesel which is a fair bit higher than the stock gear, you could gear the diff down a bit for more acceleration in the lower gears and still have a decent cruising gear.
|
|
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|