v8ade
Part of things
Posts: 947
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Aug 27, 2009 17:26:24 GMT
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I'm considering fitting a manual gearbox to the Firenza it has an auto at the moment and I'm bored off it . Theres not much chance off getting a proper manual for a Ford 5.7 Sb Windsor engine so I'm considering other options using an adapter plate . What other boxes would take up to about 350 bhp and are easily available . I don't wont to spend hundreds off pounds as the money would be better spent on the yellow Firenza I'm doing .
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V8 on open headers at full throttle "Heaven"
Jaguar xf SportBrake rover 820 Turbo vitesse
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which v8 manual gearboxBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Aug 27, 2009 17:38:07 GMT
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I suppose Ford T5's don't come cheap... but would take the power I think. I've heard good things about Volvo manual boxes but I don't recall which one is the one to have.
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Aug 27, 2009 17:46:23 GMT
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Toyota Supra 'boxes seem to be the favourite in oz, for V8s.
Google "supra gearbox conversion" for a few ideas/threads
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Aug 27, 2009 18:43:50 GMT
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Ford's T5 box struggles to take the power of a stock 302 without melting and is stronger than the T5 used in the Turbo Volvo.
Before going to all the hassle of a conversion why not look for a T45 or TKO box which were factory fit in the later Mustang GT and will take the power of a moderate tuned 351 without grenading. Even an old T10 4 speed... I did see one of them not long back for £250 in the small ads somewhere.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Aug 27, 2009 20:00:32 GMT
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I think the T5's were upgraded, virtually year on year for the Mustangs, to cope with the ever increasing power of the GT's. So I would imagine buying one would be a right minefield. Every one would be advertised as the stronger box, just like every small block chevy is a 4 bolt 350. Heres one thats a bit off the wall, Getrag 290 5 speed out of a Jag XJ/XJS 4.0 ltr. They were rated at 512 Nm (380 lbs/ft), which is what the straight 6 supercharged XJR's were rated at funnily enough In truth, the XJR's made it a bit more than that (probably around 400 lbs/ft), especially once the supercharger had bedded in. Don't know how easy one would be to find, they also have an integral bell housing, which is a bit of a pain. Sean
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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which v8 manual gearbox10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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Aug 27, 2009 21:56:37 GMT
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Supra turbo box, loads about, and there was even an adaptor plate on ebay last month (do a search) went for a bargaintastic £100 iirc missed the bidding or it would have been mine, yo9u can get them from Oz for not that much though..
That's whats going in my mussie behind the cleveland anyway...
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Aug 27, 2009 22:30:55 GMT
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"T5" is like saying "small block". It's a family, not a specific transmission.
So what 5.7L engine's in the Firenza anyway?
A T5-Z edition, which is called the Motorsport World Class unit, for example, is readily available new for around 1200.00 USD. I have a few in stock myself here at Team Blitz for our Capri V8 conversion customers. Used T5s are easy to identify. There's loads of T5 charts with ID info, and ratios, and TQ ratings.
The properly selected T5 will do fine behind a stock SBF, goodness sakes, not even an issue. You just gotta know what the hell you're looking for and what you need to buy.
Norm
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Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009 22:31:27 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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sumpcracker
Posted a lot
Yes, I’m still here.
Posts: 1,751
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Aug 27, 2009 22:47:21 GMT
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Bmw manual boxes are strong, common and fairly cheap-
Even the getrag 260 in the E30 325i has often put up with 400hp turbo conversions.
A bmw mid 90s box from a 4.4V8 (286bhp) or the E36 m3 6 speed (321bhp) would be worth a go imo.
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B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
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Aug 27, 2009 22:48:22 GMT
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like said the world class t5 will work.. cheep enough look in america in small adds seen um for as little as 50 dollars I kid u not...
failing that again been said a supra turbo box (R154 out of a mk3 3lturbo or 2.5TT only) the n/a ones can be used but go for the w58 or early "iron" box from a celica supra.. the iron box are getting hard to find but some say they are weak others had no probs with 500hp no probs.. my boss had a sbc in a healey on one for ages prob no more than 350hp tbh but gave it hell evrywhere for years hillclimbs too.. still fine! and the ausies use the w58 behind v8's again prob handle 500hp as loge as you are not consistantly trying to "hook-up" 14" slicks in the dry in a 2 tonne car you should be fine tbh..
edit: to add another gearbox try the getrag 265 dogleg in biimer m535, 635, jag manuals etc.. very strong and you can get a bargain if u look hard.. or pay 350 to get one easy.. si
its all relative. its torque thats breaks boxes/axles etc.. ask yourself this: if your engine produces 600ftlbs torque at 3500rpm and you drop the clutch at that many revs with the rear hubs bolted to the floor with zero clutch slippage the engine will stall at thet piont and the gearbox will be seeing a genuine 600ftlbs of torque.. but tbh if you are launching a light car (viva) with 10" sticky road tyres at 1750rpm with 3/4 throttle and the clutch will slip slightly and takeup. then there will be breakaway wheelspin.. and by the time u "hook-up" u will be already moving.. the gearbox may only be seeing 150ftlbs of torque anyway.. and so it if it breaks once a year and the replacement is a 50 quid item thats readily available (see supra w58 box) then whats the probs??
thats the way I see it anyway.. I will let you kow how many w58's I kill in my 318 turbo barracuda when its done! just my 52p si
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Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009 22:51:51 GMT by B-8-D
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Aug 27, 2009 23:01:37 GMT
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Mustang box or a variant is the 5-speed box they use on the TVR's, which is bulletproof. Dad has one behind his injected 4.2 Rover and it's taken all sorts of stick including clutch dumps at 5000rpm, horrific crashed changes and burnouts.
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,766
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Aug 27, 2009 23:26:18 GMT
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I have been using a w58 iron case for ages, not had any problems with it either other than the rear seal on the tailshaft, beleive me this gearbox has taken some serioussh-t, with many 1.5sec 60ft launches up the pod, I made my own conversion bellhousing, but this company makes bellhousings to fit almost anything to anything. www.dellowauto.com.au/catalogue/DellowAutomotive.pdf
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
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Aug 27, 2009 23:31:48 GMT
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by iron case u mean iron sandwich plate ie same as the w57 but iron instead of ally sandwich plate..? i ment fully iron cased gearbox of the early celica supra w50 or something.. both good apparently w58 stronger.. what sort of power/torque u running btw? cheers si
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going from experiance I would go with the Tremec TKO 600 that way you can be sure of it being future proofed for any future power mods its what I run on the the estate and they knock spots off the T5 world class found on the fox body mustangs . I know this because I had the heavy duty T5 on my old 2 door v8 mk3 it lasted just over a month the tremec has been in for 2 years now with no problem at all .its also the box found on a lot of OE powerful cars Corvette viper 2005 mustang gt ect
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2009 7:28:30 GMT by Deleted
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,766
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by iron case u mean iron sandwich plate ie same as the w57 but iron instead of ally sandwich plate..? I ment fully iron cased gearbox of the early celica supra w50 or something.. both good apparently w58 stronger.. what sort of power/torque u running btw? cheers si Iron Sandwich. I'm putting out about 300, soon to be 375 with a bit + a bit of chemical enhancement, so I'm looking at 500hp, TBH I think that will be on the edge of the box destruction, But I have a spare ;D
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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[quote author=teamblitz board=general thread=66498 post=892654 time=1251412255The properly selected T5 will do fine behind a stock SBF, goodness sakes, not even an issue. You just gotta know what the hell you're looking for and what you need to buy. [/quote]
his isn't a stock small block though. Hense suggesting he look at something stonger. T5 might be fine for stock applications (Ford designers aren't stupid) but for drag racing they don't seem to last very long even in stockish cars. This might be due to them being 15 years old or wharever before takign to the track, but, again, hense my suggestion to look at a stonger box to start with.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Aug 28, 2009 11:43:25 GMT
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T5 might be fine for stock applications (Ford designers aren't stupid) but for drag racing they don't seem to last very long even in stockish cars. But you said this: "Ford's T5 box struggles to take the power of a stock 302 without melting..." So, thus my comment. I know PLENTY of dragracing T5 guys with modified smallblocks too. You must get the right T5 (it's a family of transmissions not a single spec). You must drive well. And if the engine is extreme, either go with buffed T5 components or step up to a heavier Tremec. I don't know anything about his engine. That why I asked him, a 5.7L "what"? All good in and under the hood.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Aug 28, 2009 12:20:31 GMT
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I thought the T5 in the 'stang was the same pretty much regardless? I am aware the T5 used in various other applications is not the same deal.
And I occasionally express myself in terms where I expect other people to know the assumptions I am making...
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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v8ade
Part of things
Posts: 947
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Aug 28, 2009 12:44:38 GMT
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"T5" is like saying "small block". It's a family, not a specific transmission. So what 5.7L engine's in the Firenza anyway? A T5-Z edition, which is called the Motorsport World Class unit, for example, is readily available new for around 1200.00 USD. I have a few in stock myself here at Team Blitz for our Capri V8 conversion customers. Used T5s are easy to identify. There's loads of T5 charts with ID info, and ratios, and TQ ratings. The properly selected T5 will do fine behind a stock SBF, goodness sakes, not even an issue. You just gotta know what the hell you're looking for and what you need to buy. Norm Its a ford 5.7 windsor block from a mustang , It has big valve heads fast cam roller rockers forged pistons all the usual stuff and I'm fitting Nos hopefully over the winter thats why i will need a good box if i do the conversion
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2009 12:48:42 GMT by v8ade
V8 on open headers at full throttle "Heaven"
Jaguar xf SportBrake rover 820 Turbo vitesse
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Aug 28, 2009 14:28:58 GMT
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I thought the T5 in the 'stang was the same pretty much regardless? Not at all, as I said earlier. SBF T5's range from 235 to 330 TQ rating as factory-supplied from Ford, in all sorts of ratios, with various speedo and input shaft variations. There must be something like 40 different distinct p/n's from Ford/B-W. ...I occasionally express myself in terms where I expect other people to know the assumptions I am making... LOL ;D
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Aug 28, 2009 14:34:12 GMT
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"T5" is like saying "small block". It's a family, not a specific transmission. So what 5.7L engine's in the Firenza anyway? Its a ford 5.7 windsor block from a mustang , It has big valve heads fast cam roller rockers forged pistons all the usual stuff and I'm fitting Nos hopefully over the winter thats why I will need a good box if I do the conversion If this a dedicated drag track car, I always counsel A/T, unless you are intending to run in a stick-only class, or just want to josh around and have a bit of fun. But for serious competition, A/T is the absolute way to go, for a 100 good reasons. If you want to change to M/T behind a SBF, then it's down to gear ratio selection and TQ rating and use. A Ford Motorsport T5-Z model is good for 330 TQ, and can be built at cost to handle up to 500TQ. However, if you're going past 330 TQ, and don't want to customize the box, then I'd go either Tremec TKO (or if I had real money, a Jerico full-race box). Norm
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2009 14:39:05 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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