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Dec 24, 2008 18:29:48 GMT
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Is an Imperial Japanese flag likely to cause any offence here? Yet another of those "Conversations with a mate" things, we weren't sure whether what is merely subversive for a bosozoku in Japan might still cross the line here, particularly for the older generation. Obviously not for this person:  A bit of iconography and tin if you find the politics of flag-waving to be weighty:      And this piece which I found on my travels, a 1970s rotary engined Kei. japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/2007/07/30/not-something-you-see-everyday/#more-1239 |
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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Dec 24, 2008 19:17:48 GMT
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Imperial Japper war flags and art are extremely controversial IN Japan. (Not just elsewhere.) The pacifist movement emanating out of the Japanese war experience, guilt over war crimes and atrocities, the damage to the home islands, and framed in the post-war democratic constitution has rendered such nostalgic "pro-Tojo" expressions like warflags anti-social. Of course, that is the attraction to rebels, much like Nazi regalia to skinheads and outlaw bikers, to cause shock and disapproval among normal people.
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Last Edit: Dec 24, 2008 19:19:44 GMT by Team Blitz
 Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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MartinC
Part of things
Don't like stretched tyres, very low profile tyres & I think a car CAN be too low. Perhaps I'm odd.
Posts: 935
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Dec 24, 2008 19:26:24 GMT
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Believe me, if you learned what Imperial Japan actually got up to, you'd want no part of it.
Or shouldn't, at least.
Forgive? not sure. Forget? Never.
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1937 Standard Flying Twelve
1943 Bedford OYD
1947 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty-Special
1954 Hillman Minx MkVIII
1956 Austin A30
1957 Vauxhall Victor Super
2001 Chrysler 300M
2002 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE Tourer
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Dec 24, 2008 19:35:40 GMT
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we did this car for 2006 & was welcomed with no problems & can be seen on the 2006 usc dvd at santa pod & at the end of the show season sold for good money 2.5 ltr tuned  |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 24, 2008 20:07:12 GMT
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Yup i'd be very wary of running a car round with one incase you bump into somebody "in the know". Basically the same as painting a great big swaztika on the side of the car.
Probably gonna get all the "you're just anti japanese" people coming on having a go now.
Matt
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Dec 24, 2008 20:17:17 GMT
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Believe me, if you learned what Imperial Japan actually got up to, you'd want no part of it. Or shouldn't, at least. Forgive? not sure. Forget? Never. I think our generation can leave politics out of it mate. I can´t see you having any problems with your rising sun personally, a swastika would be different but hardly a fair comparison i think...  |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 24, 2008 20:20:36 GMT
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^^^Type "imperial japanese war crimes" into wikipedia. I'm sure your opinion will change with regards to "its not quite the same"
Matt
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Raoul Duke
Part of things
Posts: 990
Club RR Member Number: 117
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Dec 24, 2008 20:21:06 GMT
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I don't think it carries quite the same 'baggage' as a swastika, mainly because the latter is still used by some well-known and deeply unpleasant political & social groups. Yes, a rising sun is sure to upset some people, but then a modified retro will probably annoy far, far more   |
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...a redder shade of neck on a whiter shade of trash...
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 24, 2008 20:26:04 GMT
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I don't think it carries quite the same 'baggage' as a swastika Only because of people's obliviousness to what happened. Matt |
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dugong
Posted a lot
One Of Us Will Live To Rue The Day We Met Each Other (Wire : 2008)
Posts: 3,292
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Dec 24, 2008 20:34:21 GMT
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I don't think it carries quite the same 'baggage' as a swastika Only because of people's obliviousness to what happened. Matt I'd have a problem with both to be honest. It would be a bit like what John McLane had to do at the start of Die Hard With A Vengence, wantonly causing offence and all that. |
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Raoul Duke
Part of things
Posts: 990
Club RR Member Number: 117
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Dec 24, 2008 20:36:18 GMT
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I don't think it carries quite the same 'baggage' as a swastika Only because of people's obliviousness to what happened. Matt Or, as I said, because there are still twisted thugs walking around with swastikas on their arms, and they're not being ironic. No disrespect to anyone's feelings, but every country has committed atrocious acts during war, even western democracies.  But this ain't the place for another debate, eh  |
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...a redder shade of neck on a whiter shade of trash...
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Dec 24, 2008 20:45:30 GMT
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Was okay for Autocar in 1978. (don't know why this pic won't rotate)  |
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1976 Suzuki GT550 Celica RA28...Gone  |
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Dec 24, 2008 20:49:53 GMT
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The odd thing is in Japan the swastika doesn't seem to have the same stigma attached as it does over here. Cosplay kids hang out on the streets wearing Nazi SS uniforms adorned with them and think nothing of it. I have a Best Motoring dvd which features a porsche (or bmw I can't remember) with a big silver vinyl one on the door
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 Mk1 TT |
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Dec 24, 2008 20:56:53 GMT
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Don't worry, I'm fully aware of the history involved. As I said it was a question born of a conversation with a mate about the iconography.
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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Dec 24, 2008 21:09:53 GMT
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Gentlemen, this subject should not be about "politics" or "moral relativism" or "every side committed a war crime".
Yes, of course to all of that.
What sets Nazism and Stalinism and Fascism and Imperial Nipponism apart from war crimes committed by personnel of the UK or OZ or USA or Canada or Poland, is that the crimes of the Axis (yes, including the USSR during the pre-Barbarossa phase of the war) were STATE POLICY.
Little things like Pan-Asianism, Lebensraum, Ethnic Cleansing (by the Japanese too, not only the Nazis), Dictatorship...
These issues have MUCH to do with our generation, here and now. THIS is why it IS a BIG DEAL in today's Japan for people (non-ironically, BTW) to wield symbols of past tyranny. This is not a judgment rendered afar by Westerners. This is a judgment rendered by the larger segment of the Japanese people TODAY about the use of these symbols. The objection to these symbols is mainly NOT from the West, but from within Japan.
The same holds true for Nazi regalia. It is DEEPLY offensive within Germany. (And illegal!)
The punks who like to wear this stuff are often being rebellious without a clue as to the horrors behind the symbols, or they are embracing those horrors. One or the other. That's not a political statement. That's just answering Herald's original question in an honest and complete way, without any feel-good gloss overlaid.
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Last Edit: Dec 24, 2008 21:18:57 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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Dec 24, 2008 21:16:34 GMT
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Never knew about the rising sun 'emblem'. I think it looks a bit over the top to be honest - save it for a supra with those crappy Veilside body kits!
You can do it without the sun in the middle, seems to have the same effect.
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Dec 24, 2008 21:20:00 GMT
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I don't think it carries quite the same 'baggage' as a swastika Only because of people's obliviousness to what happened. Matt England and America have also committed more than their fair share of war crimes. |
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Dec 24, 2008 21:32:18 GMT
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Hello, Mr. Fire. Meet, Mr. Gasoline!  |
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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Dec 24, 2008 21:34:48 GMT
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Hello, Mr. Fire. Meet, Mr. Gasoline! Any excuse to get on the brits and yanks norm, you know me. |
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Dec 24, 2008 21:35:29 GMT
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VEry interested on opinions on whether or not you should run an Imperial Japanese Flag on your car - not so interested in political slanging matches.
Don't make this my third thread locked in under 10 minutes please.
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