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got my longest breaker bar on this and a scaff bar, its saying NO have heated the nut to as hot as my little blow torch will take it I need the hub carrier and strut off and out the way as I need to drill out the rivets holding the outer ball joint will a torque multiplier help the job? I don't know anyone with a 3/4" bar
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,255
Club RR Member Number: 160
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stubborn hub nutRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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got my longest breaker bar on this and a scaff bar, its saying NO have heated the nut to as hot as my little blow torch will take it I need the hub carrier and strut off and out the way as I need to drill out the rivets holding the outer ball joint will a torque multiplier help the job? I don't know anyone with a 3/4" bar Presuming you want to replace the ball joint, in which case Just replace the lower arm as a unit with joint. The riveted arms aren’t meant to be dismantled and even if you did want to do that, just take the arm out.
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It's not a left-hand thread, is it? I can't think why it would be.
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Just get a bottom arm with the joint included, the cost will far outweigh the hassle of what you're trying to accomplish.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,255
Club RR Member Number: 160
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stubborn hub nutRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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It's not a left-hand thread, is it? I can't think why it would be. It is not, I can confirm. Just FT.
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 978
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One of those machine mart Clarke wired impact drivers.
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dazcapri
North East
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,057
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Good luck I've just had the same trouble with my Vivaro van, two broken breaker bars and fused house lights from an induction heater later I ground the nut off.
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Mk3 Capri LS
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Turn the breaker bar around and put a jack under it.. sketchy as can be but worked for me😅
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Google suggests they are torqued to 325nm! You need someone with a ugga dugga gun. If your near Chesterfield I can hit it with my big un lol.
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Last Edit: Aug 9, 2023 18:42:35 GMT by joem83
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I have put it back together for now, and am taking it to a mates garage tomorrow who has more heavy duty equipment to crack it loose.
I did try this afternoon to use the bar using the pull up instead, but it still said no.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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stubborn hub nutChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Been here before, and struggled for years on most things. It seems that the movement between areas means that the torque isn't quite as much as you'd think at the nut. A tighter fitting pole, and a beefier socket end can all add up.
As has been said, a good impact driver will make small work of it, but with an impact socket ; normal sockets will lose you torque there, and can shatter.
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16grit
Part of things
Posts: 213
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Mr version of 'Service Tool No.1' that you are using there is an 8' scaffold tube with sockets welded to the ends for different cars / hubnuts, first socket went on in 1989, VW kombi rear I think. I put the car on the ground with the wheel on and the full weight of the engine plus 1st or reverse. This might mean you have to use the spacesaver / steely spare to get the socket in*, perhaps with a bit of lock too. Toblerone-shaped-log as a chock. Bodyweight on the end of the 8' scaffold tube is difficult to resist, always a good feeling when it goes, but you have to be ready.....
*those pesky Frenchies used to partial to wheels with no hole centres (2cv, Peugeot 104 etc), and being liking a bit of French, I confess to having chain drilled a centre hole in more than one French wheel to get Service Tool No.1 onto a hub nut in the past. You never know, one might still be floating around out there somewhere...
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Last Edit: Aug 11, 2023 6:19:04 GMT by 16grit
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Beware of putting too much torque through a gearbox that might not be designed to take it - 325Nm is a lot. I realise that it's not to lock it completely, and my comment is really from reading about people who "stick it in gear" to undo the crank pulley nut on an i5 Audi engine (which I think is around 450Nm) rather than using the proper crank locking tool.
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Last Edit: Aug 12, 2023 6:58:55 GMT by Rich
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16grit
Part of things
Posts: 213
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Aug 11, 2023 16:48:07 GMT
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Beware of putting too much torque through a gearbox that might not be designed to take it - 325Nm is a lot. I realise that it's not to lock it completely, and my comment is really from reading about people who "stick it in gear" to undo the crank pulley nut on an i5 Audi engine (which I think is around 450Nm) rather than using the proper crank locking tool. Yep always good to think things through! In practice (and bear in mind I don't think I've ever had a car with lower than 65 (??!!) profile tyres), if the wheel is properly chocked the tyre sidewall provides plenty of air-cushion give and a nice little 'upramp' to the 'nothing can resist the 8' pole foo'...
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Last Edit: Aug 12, 2023 7:01:11 GMT by Rich
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Aug 11, 2023 17:01:21 GMT
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have not taken it yet, was supposed to go yesterday afternoon but he got called out on a job and his own business comes first, was supposed to then go this afternoon but after doing my nightshift and a sleep during the day i woke with a case of CBA.
It will get cracked next week.
thanks for all your replies though!
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Just picking up on the comment about buggering the gearbox with the torque.
Try locking the hub with a screwdriver in the brake rotor vents jamming against the caliper bracket.
You'll get a nice solid counter hold and I think will help a lot to do away with all the stretch and bounce and slack compressing engine mounts that you'll get by having it in gear.
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1964 Daimler 2.5 V8 (project)
2015 Disco 4 SDV6
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,710
Club RR Member Number: 39
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stubborn hub nutDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Aug 12, 2023 11:16:55 GMT
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325Nm is quite a bit but remember that the gearbox is a torque multiplier - so it maybe only rated for 200Nm but that's at the input shaft - From there through 1st 3:1 and the final drive 4:1 torque at the axle is a fair bit more. From the axle back its a torque divider so 400NM at the axle is already down to 100Nm at the output gear and then 30Nm at the input shaft.
320NM needs 160KG hanging off a 2 metre pole so get a couple of mates round. But what you really need is a bigger pole if you intend to hang 80KG off of it - I would say a 5m pole should do it - But I would always have the disc bolted on and brakes applied with a bit of 2x4 between pedal and seat back if not able to leave the wheel and tyre on.
And hopefully when the nut is off the shaft will just fall out and not be stuck in there like a b'stard and need a big air hammer to get it out.
ETA
Only believe half just under a 1/10th of what is written up there - apple fell off the tree and all
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Last Edit: Aug 16, 2023 19:20:26 GMT by Darkspeed
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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stubborn hub nutChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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325Nm is quite a bit but remember that the gearbox is a torque multiplier - so it maybe only rated for 200Nm but that's at the input shaft - From there through 1st 3:1 and the final drive 4:1 torque at the axle is a fair bit more. From the axle back its a torque divider so 400NM at the axle is already down to 100Nm at the output gear and then 30Nm at the input shaft. 320NM needs 160KG hanging off a 2 metre pole so get a couple of mates round. But what you really need is a bigger pole if you intend to hang 80KG off of it - I would say a 5m pole should do it - But I would always have the disc bolted on and brakes applied with a bit of 2x4 between pedal and seat back if not able to leave the wheel and tyre on. And hopefully when the nut is off the shaft will just fall out and not be stuck in there like a b'stard and need a big air hammer to get it out. When you put it like that, this is probably why I was moving a semi bolted down workbench, with the shelving above it and alot of the weight on that too... That was a for a 2CV bearing retainer. Even with scaffold poles, 3/4" drive socket, that retainer would not undo. I suspect it had got hot before (despite the last owner saying the bearing wasn't too bad) and it had distorted the threads, as it was a stuggle to even screw out once the rattle gun got it undone.
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Aug 14, 2023 15:17:31 GMT
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its now off
and after a drive to mates garage, on motorway, and with a bit of heavy braking, there must have been enough heat in it to get it moving and it came undone quite easy, embarassingly easy to be honest!
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Aug 15, 2023 21:10:43 GMT
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Ah, well you obviously frightened it with your efforts 🙂
As for knackering the gearbox with the torque, you’d need to lock the engine to have any chance of this. Pretty sure the engine will turn well before 325Nm!
There are nearly 10N in a kg (9.81 for the pedants) so 160kg @ 2m is more like 3,200Nm….. which really is alot 😳
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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