Davey
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Jan 10, 2023 12:33:32 GMT
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Looking for some real world experience if anyone has it. I daily an XF, anyone who owns, has owned or knows anything about them will know they have frustrating brakes to say the least. This car has always had a brake judder, new discs, new pads, new suspension arms, tracking, wheel balancing, brake skimming the works has not cured it. I was having a fiddle this weekend yet again with the brakes, rears seized solid now sorted but it has come to light i yet again need new front discs. Bringing me on to my question. Mtec seem to be a direct from manufacture supplier of semi performance bits. Soft discs seem to be the issue for XF's so what if any are peoples experiences? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394393040639
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2023 12:41:30 GMT by Rich
K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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Jan 10, 2023 13:33:41 GMT
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I ran a full MTec set up on my R53 Cooper S, basically as they were cheaper than anywhere else. i upgraded to the drilled and vented while i was at it.I couldn't fault them ,the price was great (obvs) the delivery was quick and they fitted no issues and once bedded in they worked well even with the standard mintex pads
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Davey
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Jan 10, 2023 14:09:46 GMT
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I ran a full MTec set up on my R53 Cooper S, basically as they were cheaper than anywhere else. i upgraded to the drilled and vented while i was at it.I couldn't fault them ,the price was great (obvs) the delivery was quick and they fitted no issues and once bedded in they worked well even with the standard mintex pads That's great news. Any obvious premature disc wear? Has anyone had any experience with their own branded "Performance" pads?
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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jmsheahan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 682
Club RR Member Number: 121
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Mtec brakes.jmsheahan
@jmsheahan
Club Retro Rides Member 121
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Jan 10, 2023 14:10:51 GMT
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I've got vented/grooved MTEC discs on my Golf. They've done a few thousand miles with some aggressive pads in and multiple heat cycles. Seem of decent quality.
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Davey
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Jan 10, 2023 14:44:18 GMT
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I've got vented/grooved MTEC discs on my Golf. They've done a few thousand miles with some aggressive pads in and multiple heat cycles. Seem of decent quality. Well it looks like this is what the barge will be getting. The wear on Mintex discs from one set of pads is frankly alarming! A very noticeable lip on the inside of both front disks after 15,000 miles. Modern discs seem so soft. I could probably use them for one more set of pads but i think the softness of the metal has some level of impact on the vibrations.
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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Jan 10, 2023 20:37:49 GMT
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I think it’s more a case of the pads being very hard to increase their wear life so service intervals can be stretched to the max.
My experience with judder is that it’s more often down to transfer of pad material to the disc caused by holding the car on the brakes after a long hard braking session (say sitting at lights at the bottom of a long downhill m-way slip). Possibly because the pads need to be properly “burnt in” and rarely are. Procedures can be found for performance pads but never mentioned elsewhere.
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jan 10, 2023 21:39:20 GMT
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As for Mtec stuff, I'm not convinced they're better that the likes of ATE, Brembo etc. I think one reason for the popularity of Mtec discs is they offer them as grooved and drilled.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Davey
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Jan 11, 2023 11:38:23 GMT
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As for Mtec stuff, I'm not convinced they're better that the likes of ATE, Brembo etc. I think one reason for the popularity of Mtec discs is they offer them as grooved and drilled. If quality is comparable to brembo then I'm happy, the price even for a standard brembo disc is getting on for 50% more.
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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Davey
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Jan 11, 2023 11:40:43 GMT
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I think it’s more a case of the pads being very hard to increase their wear life so service intervals can be stretched to the max. My experience with judder is that it’s more often down to transfer of pad material to the disc caused by holding the car on the brakes after a long hard braking session (say sitting at lights at the bottom of a long downhill m-way slip). Possibly because the pads need to be properly “burnt in” and rarely are. Procedures can be found for performance pads but never mentioned elsewhere. You say being hard but they have lasted the same 15k as the discs it seems.. Still we shall see what happens this time around. Yep, this is plastered everywhere when you look for this type of issue on an XF, I have done every combo of bed in procedure on multiple different disc and pad combos, never sit with foot on the brakes, regularly do the old brake clean procedure. Its always temporarily slightly better, never gone completely but comes back pretty quickly
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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Jan 11, 2023 12:23:02 GMT
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As for Mtec stuff, I'm not convinced they're better that the likes of ATE, Brembo etc. I think one reason for the popularity of Mtec discs is they offer them as grooved and drilled. If quality is comparable to brembo then I'm happy, the price even for a standard brembo disc is getting on for 50% more. Considering the continuous brake problems you're having I think I'd opt for a leading brand like Brembo and pay the difference. That way there's a better chance you've removed the discs as the issue. I'm clutching at straws now. Do you know has anybody tried to resolve the issue by changing the flexi hoses or master cylinder for example?
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Last Edit: Jan 11, 2023 12:39:43 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,840
Club RR Member Number: 40
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Mtec brakes.jamesd1972
@jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member 40
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Jan 11, 2023 13:01:17 GMT
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My understanding is that modern disks have to be soft to get the friction co-efficient against pads with no asbestos involved. They probably are designed to only last 2 sets of pads at best. I also read somewhere that most modern disks don't get the heat treatment they used to hence the issue re-occurring with relatively new discs once through some heat cycles. Had similar problems with the old CRV - the biggest solve I found was to skim the new set of discs once bedded in with a small judder. Getting microscopically clean on the mounting face did help as well. Double checking wheel balance helped, it also improved / went away with the new lower control arms- - its all the little things adding up as well as the brakes I suspect. You used to be able to get brakes skimmed on the hub which might be the ultimate cure. Don't believe Brembo are a performance brand any more - part of a big group now and trading on the name at replacement disc level so reasonable but not special. Bit of a brain dump but hopefully helpful. Good luck this time. James
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Jan 11, 2023 13:42:43 GMT
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I won't class standard Brembo or ATE for that matter as a ''performance'' disc i.e. something special or above the norm. I would consider both brands as good quality. Well, that's my experience.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Davey
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Jan 11, 2023 14:03:36 GMT
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If quality is comparable to brembo then I'm happy, the price even for a standard brembo disc is getting on for 50% more. Considering the continuous brake problems you're having I think I'd opt for a leading brand like Brembo and pay the difference. That way there's a better chance you've removed the discs as the issue. I'm clutching at straws now. Do you know has anybody tried to resolve the issue by changing the flexi hoses or master cylinder for example? I'll be honest I've tried about everything you can think over the last 2 years, about the only thing that hasn't been changed is the ABS module because £££££. All suspension arms changed or checked, i even have a spare set of front lower arms that will be polybushed when it next needs them, tracking numerous times, wheel balance numerous times, several sets of tyres, wheels rotated, different wheels, getting to the point of attempting a rain dance and prayers to the pagan gods... The discs on it currently are Mintex, which replaced Brembo which in turn replaced OE Jaguar stuff. according to the owners clubs this is far more common than it should be with no real single known issue. I will try the Mtec for a few months and see how we get on, I may even get the current discs skimmed beforehand to see what changes if anything.
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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Jan 11, 2023 21:25:58 GMT
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I've had MTEC dimpled and grooved discs with their premium pads on my dad's 400bhp 535D for the last few years, never had a single issue with them, no judder, no fade and decent longevity considering the speed and weight of the thing they're hauling to a stop.
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Davey
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,208
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Jan 12, 2023 10:19:36 GMT
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I've had MTEC dimpled and grooved discs with their premium pads on my dad's 400bhp 535D for the last few years, never had a single issue with them, no judder, no fade and decent longevity considering the speed and weight of the thing they're hauling to a stop. Perfect. Very comparable car that can have very similar brake issues. Thanks!
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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