qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,410
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Tyred of it all.qwerty
@qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member 52
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Mar 22, 2022 18:24:24 GMT
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I've ran all sorts over the years. Nankangs are alright for cheapies. I had some Rotalla E-Pace on my Polo for a while as they were the cheapest 185/50r14s I could get new and they were really surprisingly good. Waaaaay better than the Dunlops I took off which were past their best and like plastic.
Now on the Polo I use Yokohama A539 which they seem to have really improved the formula of. When I used to use them on my Saxos they were lethal in the wet, now they're not.
On my daily rubbish free Civic I use Michelin Pilot Sport 4s. Which I think are bloody marvelous and I get for a decent price fro Costco
Tom
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Tyred of it all.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Mar 29, 2022 23:14:01 GMT
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Over the years, I've gone from -Buying Cars on budgets on one axle or both, and then going mid-range -Going from mid-range to premium -Going budget to premium. At one point, I rarely bought premium tyres. Now, I tend to do my research but also semi-stick to what I know. TLDR version is -Ceteris Parabus ; You get what you pay for, comparing new for new -Mid-range is OK, but it can be lacklustre -Budget is generally terrible, but some surprises can pop up -"Emperor's Cloths" statement is BS for the most part. If folks are happy to drive slower and create traffic because they want to justify their expenditure, good for them : One guy I know does 15mph in a 30, and when I speak to him (albeit not mentioning his slow driving : "No point in buying pricey, just go slower. Black and Round is all you need". Bear in mind I can go as quick as him on some routes on a pushbike FFS! As a wise lady told me, "we are the traffic". I enjoy wearing fancy cloths I hear you say? I tend to keep whatever I buy! This is coming from someone who will live with bad tyres on a car and has done on several previous motors. Bad practice I know, but I guess my tightness dies hard (i.e if the tyres have tread, wear them out, and like Covid, "live with it"). I'm a hypocrite to some extent, I know. I was also poor for several years! I know I drove my C209 Merc way more carefully and didn't leave junctions due to its one tyre fire/low speed slidey moments! I also know that if I drove quickly (aka 25MPH) around town, I would not be able to stop if someone walked out on me, which with the new rule changes, pedestrians can do just that, and take me to the cleaners (The judges, not the nicer sort ). -Not having the right tyre can ruin the experience of a car, for me anyway. I on a few occasions probably sold cars due to this! That said, the cars weren't deemed pricey in today's money! For me, a tyre has to -Make the car feel the best it can ; This is subjective I feel -Last well -Not be too extravagant on price : This is subjective I admit! I've sometimes changed tyre sizes to do this. I'm in the process of making a table of what tyres each of my cars had. It may be useless for this, but at least it will provide a timeline for the tyres I used to buy, and my experiences at the time. I'll probably put this up in the future if there are no objections.
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Last Edit: Mar 31, 2022 17:45:43 GMT by ChasR
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Tyred of it all.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Mar 29, 2022 23:27:10 GMT
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Hmm, that's exactly what I've been looking for. Not sure I can stomach £108 per corner though. I'll have to sit on this one for a bit. After my earlier post I'm just contemplating new rears for my E46 and the cheapest fitted option so far for the Bridgestones I want is £149 per tyre. It could be worse. -Budgets for my M3 are now £100 each, with Premium being near double that. I got lucky 15 months ago, when I got 2 Michelin PS4s for £260 for the rear axle unfitted. They are now £350 minimum. -Citroen DS tyres are over £200 a corner now. Ouch! That's if you want the the correct asymmetric pattern for the car. -If you are TRX owner, the above prices are a bargain. Have an E24 M635CSi? Try £2k all round! No joke! Yes, you can put 17s on, but they do look a little 'gangster' compared the TRXs, which for a change, at least me my eyes, suit the car, and period well.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:30:35 GMT
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Bit late to this party I know, but wanted to say I really rate Michelin cross climates as an all rounder. I find most sketchy moments come in the colder months with snow and ice, I used to swap onto winter tyres each year which make a massive difference, but it gets a bit expensive and a faff. I found cross climates a good compromise for all year. Definitely worth the extra money to me when the snow hits.
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If at first you don't succeed........ ....Don't try skydiving!
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Mar 31, 2022 11:34:48 GMT
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i'm open to criticism for over simplifying, but when i researched this (and it was quite obsessive amount of time) i learned that coefficient of friction (grip) is a combination of tyre compound and vertical weight on the tyre. And that the first thing that is sacrificed to cost saving with economy tyres is tyre compound. its not always as binary as that, but in general true
this a double edged sword because tyres lasting for a long time and not costing much is often at the top of peoples priority, so there is a reward for going economy. this is systematic too, the last time i bought a set of 4 tyres he said "blah blah 32 quid a corner", i asked if they had something more expensive and it really stopped the chap in his tracks.
you get allot of people who use the rational that if they don't drive like a twonk then less grippy tyres are fine. to me thats like saying a seat belt made out of zip ties is perfectly adequate if you don't have a crash. you have to plan for what you cant predict
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,588
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Mar 31, 2022 12:12:45 GMT
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Funny enough I recently bought a full set of 205/R13's for my Capri. Went with Nankangs as I'd heard of them and hadn't the others but, I'm so used to buying cheapo £25 tyres it felt a lot to cough up £260 for the full set (cant imagine paying that for 1 tyre!). I've noticed a huge difference since having these tyres on there. Much better road holding, the old ones used to wheel spin at the drop of a hat.
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Mar 31, 2022 13:22:30 GMT
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i'm open to criticism for over simplifying, but when i researched this (and it was quite obsessive amount of time) i learned that coefficient of friction (grip) is a combination of tyre compound and vertical weight on the tyre. And that the first thing that is sacrificed to cost saving with economy tyres is tyre compound. its not always as binary as that, but in general true this a double edged sword because tyres lasting for a long time and not costing much is often at the top of peoples priority, so there is a reward for going economy. this is systematic too, the last time i bought a set of 4 tyres he said "blah blah 32 quid a corner", i asked if they had something more expensive and it really stopped the chap in his tracks. you get allot of people who use the rational that if they don't drive like a twonk then less grippy tyres are fine. to me thats like saying a seat belt made out of zip ties is perfectly adequate if you don't have a crash. you have to plan for what you cant predict don't really agree with your seat belt quote not really the same. as long as a seat belt is British standard and pass a mot its fine ive fitted £20 universal belts before and not spent hundreds on a premium seat belts No one ever going to agree on this subject But does make me laugh when someone spends hundred of pounds on tyres and fits them to there cheap alloys with wobble wheel bolts because there pcd wasn't right. Running cheap discs and pads. Then the night before they cooked dinner with budget supermarket food and took cheap paracetamols for there headache when there body is the first point of contact with the controls on the car
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Last Edit: Mar 31, 2022 13:28:55 GMT by dickie12
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Tyred of it all.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Mar 31, 2022 17:41:22 GMT
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i'm open to criticism for over simplifying, but when i researched this (and it was quite obsessive amount of time) i learned that coefficient of friction (grip) is a combination of tyre compound and vertical weight on the tyre. And that the first thing that is sacrificed to cost saving with economy tyres is tyre compound. its not always as binary as that, but in general true this a double edged sword because tyres lasting for a long time and not costing much is often at the top of peoples priority, so there is a reward for going economy. this is systematic too, the last time i bought a set of 4 tyres he said "blah blah 32 quid a corner", i asked if they had something more expensive and it really stopped the chap in his tracks. you get allot of people who use the rational that if they don't drive like a twonk then less grippy tyres are fine. to me thats like saying a seat belt made out of zip ties is perfectly adequate if you don't have a crash. you have to plan for what you cant predict don't really agree with your seat belt quote not really the same. as long as a seat belt is British standard and pass a mot its fine ive fitted £20 universal belts before and not spent hundreds on a premium seat belts No one ever going to agree on this subject But does make me laugh when someone spends hundred of pounds on tyres and fits them to there cheap alloys with wobble wheel bolts because there pcd wasn't right. Running cheap discs and pads. Then the night before they cooked dinner with budget supermarket food and took cheap paracetamols for there headache when there body is the first point of contact with the controls on the car It's a double edged sword really. I know of someone with a Focus RS Mk2. It has -almost 400BHP -Brembo 6 pot Brakes over the factory items -Fancy aero bits on it -Other bits. Tyres? Something Chinese and non-descript. But I do know of people not quite as you say, but folks who will put alot into the car, and cut elsewhere in their life. One is a known chap who made one of the first VW Beetles with a Scooby conversion in the country.
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don't really agree with your seat belt quote not really the same. as long as a seat belt is British standard and pass a mot its fine ive fitted £20 universal belts before and not spent hundreds on a premium seat belts i didnt mention cheap seat belts, i said zitpies
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£260 for the full set (cant imagine paying that for 1 tyre!). It hurts lol. A set of tyres & disks/pads for a S550 Mustang GT would set you back £2k! Glad I only had to do the tyres lol.
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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As someone else has said, if you’re doing a fair amount of miles and hence will wear them out in the 7/8 years it will take for them to be past their best due to age, Michelin CrossClimate + (or now the “2” version) cannot be beaten if you drive your car in both colder and warmer seasons.
On our family bus I’ve calculated I will get over 30k miles out of them before they hit 2mm - meaning they are decent value despite their higher initial cost as they last longer - and as a bonus, Michelin are the only tyre manufacturer I’ve heard of who think about the performance of their tyres when worn rather than just when new and design the grooves to be wider as the tyre wears to compensate reduced tread depth.
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Last Edit: Apr 1, 2022 18:12:37 GMT by djefk
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Tyred of it all.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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As someone else has said, if you’re doing a fair amount of miles and hence will wear them out in the 7/8 years it will take for them to be past their best due to age, Michelin CrossClimate + (or now the “2” version) cannot be beaten if you drive your car in both colder and warmer seasons. On our family bus I’ve calculated I will get over 30k miles out of them before they hit 2mm - meaning they are decent value despite their higher initial cost as they last longer - and as a bonus, Michelin are the only tyre manufacturer I’ve heard of who think about the performance of their tyres when worn rather than just when new and design the grooves to be wider as the tyre wears to compensate reduced tread depth. I discovered this with Michelins when I was doing 50k a year in a car with my dad doing the remaining 60k. I used to always go budget. I was also tentative in the wet and generally drove to what I felt were the limitations. I had road noise issues too. But everyone told me just drive to what the car can do, and it’s not worth spending more, including the tyre fitters. I had a taste of the good life before, but not enough of it, or for long enough. One day the tyre fitter had an older model of Continental going cheap, so I put them on. That was quite a transformation. Then I didn’t want to go back to budgets or mid range. Next time he had Michelin. From being in the tyre shop every month, I was there every 2 months save for if I got the occasional puncture. That, and -lower road noise -superior dynamics almost everywhere Is what made me switch from budgets and mid-range at times to the premium boys. I do flirtate with the mid-range stuff now and again mind you.
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Last Edit: Apr 2, 2022 16:39:54 GMT by ChasR
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,841
Club RR Member Number: 40
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Tyred of it all.jamesd1972
@jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member 40
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The game changer here has been the EU label. It is relatively easy to look at a label that say ‘C’ rated for wet grip and know that it’s not as good as ‘A’ at stopping in the wet… Pretty much won’t go on a car of mine if if isn’t A rated. Noise is another choice of note couple of db’s makes a Massive difference. Efficiency not so much of a choice but adds to the picture. Do definitely see a difference between the summer and winter tyres which have different ratings though, reckon on 3mpg ish on a longer run. My problem is going on-line looking at tyres on price and trying to balance cost against these scores. Right old rabbit hole even before you look at any tyre tests like the ADAC. Anyway after all that Goodyear have done me well for the price for many years and importantly had a couple of near misses from other people making poor choices that would have been a hit otherwise. James
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rodharris83
Club Retro Rides Member
Day Dreamer...
Posts: 760
Club RR Member Number: 4
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Tyred of it all.rodharris83
@rodharris83
Club Retro Rides Member 4
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I've generally bought the best tyres I can afford at the time. These have generally been Kumho / Goodyear / Perelli / Michelin - All have done well, but I tend to stick to Michelin where I can. The way I see it, the tyre is your only contact to the road surface, So put the best on you can afford. Like many on here I'm sure a good tyre has let me avoid misses from other people making that would have been a hit otherwise. The premium tyres also tend to cope with our rubbish, potholed roads better!
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Tyred of it all.Mercdan68
@forddan68
Club Retro Rides Member 68
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i'm open to criticism for over simplifying, but when i researched this (and it was quite obsessive amount of time) i learned that coefficient of friction (grip) is a combination of tyre compound and vertical weight on the tyre. And that the first thing that is sacrificed to cost saving with economy tyres is tyre compound. its not always as binary as that, but in general true this a double edged sword because tyres lasting for a long time and not costing much is often at the top of peoples priority, so there is a reward for going economy. this is systematic too, the last time i bought a set of 4 tyres he said "blah blah 32 quid a corner", i asked if they had something more expensive and it really stopped the chap in his tracks. you get allot of people who use the rational that if they don't drive like a twonk then less grippy tyres are fine. to me thats like saying a seat belt made out of zip ties is perfectly adequate if you don't have a crash. you have to plan for what you cant predict don't really agree with your seat belt quote not really the same. as long as a seat belt is British standard and pass a mot its fine ive fitted £20 universal belts before and not spent hundreds on a premium seat belts No one ever going to agree on this subject But does make me laugh when someone spends hundred of pounds on tyres and fits them to there cheap alloys with wobble wheel bolts because there pcd wasn't right. Running cheap discs and pads. Then the night before they cooked dinner with budget supermarket food and took cheap paracetamols for there headache when there body is the first point of contact with the controls on the car That my friend is the best worded response to any thread I’ve ever seen on this forum and I’ve been here a few years! Made me chuckle thanks such a great way to put it and I agree 100%
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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don't really agree with your seat belt quote not really the same. as long as a seat belt is British standard and pass a mot its fine ive fitted £20 universal belts before and not spent hundreds on a premium seat belts No one ever going to agree on this subject But does make me laugh when someone spends hundred of pounds on tyres and fits them to there cheap alloys with wobble wheel bolts because there pcd wasn't right. Running cheap discs and pads. Then the night before they cooked dinner with budget supermarket food and took cheap paracetamols for there headache when there body is the first point of contact with the controls on the car That my friend is the best worded response to any thread I’ve ever seen on this forum and I’ve been here a few years! Made me chuckle thanks such a great way to put it and I agree 100% I always use cheap headache tablets, they work mint & have the same ingredients as branded expensive ones. Oh sorry that wasn’t the question 😀
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 658
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I’m with rattlecan on the meds, paracetamol is paracetamol,
Back to tyres I’ve had budget, runway new set fitted to Impreza wrx by the car dealer, absolutely terrible can only cope with a runway hence name. . . and nankangs I had fitted as rarely used size at the time and in stock and budget. Suprisingly good, their ns2r tyres nowadays get great reviews.
Premium I’ve had pretty much most premium brands, Michelin conti Bridgestone Pirelli Goodyear Dunlop Michelin. Not worth the money imo. Conti I had were way overpriced, wore badly on inside of tyre (although I like the conti road attack on my bike). Knocked the price down on a car I was buying due to rear wheel bearing noise. It wasn’t. Bad Goodyear tyres. Replaced for bf Goodrich problem gone.
Midrange for me, most I’ve tried have been as good as the premium brands but cheaper. Some not so good but have my go to brands, kumho, Yokohama Toyo or Avon preferably.
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Last Edit: Apr 6, 2022 14:47:23 GMT by norm75
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Paracetamol os paracetamol, you are paying for the name with that.
Tyres though, they arent created equal. Have a look at what tyres are fitted from the factory, you wont find any on budget brands - you may find lower models on efficent grip or eco branded stuff, but the performance models always have UHP tyres.
Extreme example, but here's Jonny Smith failing to drive at more than 12mph in a AMG.
Test of regular tyres, very in depth reviews from this chanel & the reason I picked PS4 over PS4S for my Mustang.
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Last Edit: Apr 6, 2022 17:22:38 GMT by joem83
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Tyred of it all.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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The game changer here has been the EU label. Disagree with that to some extent, but it does provide some clarity. I looked into it, and it's quite convoluted how it is tested -Control tyre for said tyre is done off a tyre in the same brand, but say what would make the tyre the best contender in that category. That tends to be the narrowest tyre with the highest profile. -Noise : tested from outside the car. This is one reason why some brands will have several models, so as to try and get around the ratings setup. In one test, in one size, Kumho (a model I forgotten) was found to be more like a 'C' graded tyre against the others. I’m with rattlecan on the meds, paracetamol is paracetamol, Back to tyres I’ve had budget, runway new set fitted to Impreza wrx by the car dealer, absolutely terrible can only cope with a runway hence name. . . and nankangs I had fitted as rarely used size at the time and in stock and budget. Suprisingly good, their ns2r tyres nowadays get great reviews. NS2R is rated well for a few reasons -Against other mid-range road tyres and a number of premium tyres, it is better in the dry. -It's a DOT R compound tyre ; Quite different to a run of the mill tyre you can buy if you needed a tyre from a tyre shop that day. it's basically a road legal fast road/track day tyre. -Th However, -There are other budget DOT R track tyres as good as the NS2-R, even in the cheaper brands. Achilles 123 is one which is rated well -The NS-2Rs take a while to heat up, with the softer compound wearing very quickly on modern cars. -Some better brands will annihilate them. Michelin Cups are a funny one here but they do last. Yoko AD-08Rs are more progressive and come to life faster. Kumho V70as are a nice step up. They just grip and grip and grip, and seem to stay in a sweet spot on track for longer. They warm up just as fast as the NS-2Rs, and my V70as were an old set frankly (5 years old when I got them, albeit dry stored) -In the wet, they will struggle against a top end UHP tyre. I drove my M3 back from the Nurburgring at pretty high speeds one year in the wet on Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss, being late for a train. There's no way I could have done that -In my RS Turbo on NS-2Rs. Not because it would have broken down, it just didn't grip that well confidently in the wet -M3 on the Kumho v70as. As some RRs here will recall (one of which came on the trip with me) I drove back in the rain from Spa. -M3 on Falkens. Prior to the Michelin PS4S, I was very happy with them bar the abysmal wear (rears got done in 6k! Not good on a tyre costing £140 a corner). In the wet they were so so. The PS4S were quite a step up. Some cars also don't get on with some tyres, and sometimes folks can be hookwinked. As an example -My 106 had one guy pay £90 for a part-worn Pirelli P700z and Michelin Pilot SX in 2010. Both tyres had been out of production for 10 years, and both were 12 and 11 years respectively. Almost anything would have gripped better than those. -Mate's dad had an F-Type S. To this day, that was the sketchiest car I had been in and driven for a short distance. Why? A known tyre fitter in Warwick fitted 10 year old Pirellis onto it ; they were older than the car! It would not even try and grip in the wet. It was literally either trying to go sideways or just permanently have the traction control light on. On a new set of PS4S, it was like another car. I suspect, if he wasn't a regular customer, they would have fobbed him off. Don't get me know, the latter one was fun in a scary, don't care if I hit someone else kind of a way. That's before I come to folks underinflating tyres, incorrectly etc. etc. Only real way is to go new, know the car is right, and check the pressures yourself IMHO. Even my £91 had the wrong pressures via a mate who works on BMWs all day long and is an engineer in the car industry!
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Last Edit: Apr 6, 2022 16:54:36 GMT by ChasR
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Tyred of it all.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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On my daily rubbish free Civic I use Michelin Pilot Sport 4s. Which I think are bloody marvelous and I get for a decent price fro Costco Tom CostCo came in very handy on the Mondeo ST220 tyres. 4 Eagle F1 SuperSports were £270 fitted in 225/40R18. That thing felt like a large hot hatch on those. A few folks who went in that actually really liked how that car got down the road . I didn't shop with them before at all as I was very loyal to my tyre shop. However, with the pandemic, and me tying in refurbishment of wheels into tyre changes so as to save cash, I succumbed. They do some great deals. Only complaint about the SuperSports was that they seemed a little slow to grip in the cold conditions (ie. below 4 degrees). After a mile, they were fine.
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Last Edit: Apr 6, 2022 16:58:13 GMT by ChasR
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