norm75
Part of things
Posts: 667
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Sept 15, 2021 17:50:31 GMT
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Another to dispel the myth 2 litre 4 cyl are not capable of reliable power, the early Volvo s40/v40 T4 had a 1.9 turbo 4 with around 200bhp. These phase 1 models had stronger forged internals than the later 2.0 T4 and there are a couple of crazy swedes on a Volvo forum that are running around 700 brake with theirs. Yes they probably have changed the rods and pistons, but the standard engine is good for serious power.
I had a phase 1 v40 T4 that I ran for about 3 and a half years. I paid £800 for it and spent nothing in repairs. One car I regret selling.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Sept 15, 2021 18:44:39 GMT
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Question is, will 300 to 400 BHP be needed to shift a motor that weighs over two ton? Why do you need that kind of horsepower? I'm running a modern Skoda VRS Challenge, it's got, according to the manufacturer figures, 245 BHP. It is a full sized 5 seater with a massive boot and weighs a lot. The car can move like a stabbed rat if I hit the loud pedal, it is bloody fast! The same family VAG 2.0 turbo lump in an older generation Skoda/Golf/Polo is going to make one ridiculously fast car indeed. They can still be tuned/chipped to give more and in an older & lighter bodyshell, the performance is going to be, probably, sub 5 second 0 to 60's with decent economy and reliability. The point is, well the way I see it, is that there are always magic BHP numbers thrown about but BHP alone is not the answer to building a fast & reliable car. It's like saying that you would need 300 BHP to make a brick shaped car go fast but only 200 BHP to make a more streamlined one go just as quickly. If you have the nous, that's the way i would go, modern engine + donor car and an older vehicle from the same stable to make the change over less problematic. Chipping modern engines seems the norm and doesn't require you to sell a kidney to pay for it. You wouldn't need 300 BHP + either to go very fast, powerful engine in a bodyshell that weighs as much as a wet fart will do the job perfectly. Just my thoughts. Good luck!
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Sept 15, 2021 20:26:20 GMT
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Lexus 1UZFE's still seem to be around in the uk (albeit not as cheap or plentiful as previous), and there's a few in NZ too. an ECU, intake and exhaust, a turbo and you can see 400bhp. Ford the 4.0 litre 6 cylinder barra engine (specifically the 07-2011 turbo version) is cheap and plentiful over here. A full ford territory turbo can be had for $6-8k (NZD), and an exhaust, intercooler upgrade and a tune will see 400bhp without further work. These get my vote off hand. The six pot Ford sounds like a nice choice and the fact they're plentiful and cheap is more than just a bonus. Then again a bit of tuning will see the 1UZFE produce 300 BHP without a turbo (another bonus) and who doesn't like a bulletproof V8?
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Sept 16, 2021 12:09:37 GMT
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audi V8/V6s would be infinitely cheaper than a Busso. If they can be made to fit bmw gearboxes you would be laughing
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Sept 16, 2021 12:47:25 GMT
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I'd love to do a barra in an old Ford pick up ... Me too. Since the Barra is an evolution (and I don't know if they now share anything at all, but) of the 240 in the 66 (see sig), I think it'd be the perfect modern engine swap for that if/when the boy gets tired of the 50 year old drivetrain. But getting my hands on one here in the states is an economic problem I don't quite have a handle on.
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Sept 16, 2021 13:43:47 GMT
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I second the OM605 and OM606 Mercedes engines which easily support big horsepower, with larger turbos and mechanical pumps.
Also consider the Volvo B230FK red block engines - they can withstand up to 500BHP with not much hassle. Strong units.
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Love for old BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguars and Swedish Slabs!
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Sept 16, 2021 16:49:59 GMT
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audi V8/V6s would be infinitely cheaper than a Busso. If they can be made to fit bmw gearboxes you would be laughing Adapter plate and flywheel are available to use a BMW gearbox on the Audi V8😊
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Sept 17, 2021 8:26:07 GMT
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Cheers for all the replies! I'd forgotten about jag aj16's, subaru, and audi v8 options. Reasonably available here and cheapish. M3/5 would be lovely, but very expensive, as are s3/ttrs engines. I'm nowhere near decided on what my next project might be, but there's a classically styled open top 2 seater kit car rolling body I've seen a picture of and might go for a look. Barra might be a bit big physically, and a big turbo 1.8t or mx5 engine mightn't suit the character. Busso v6 would be lovely, but what's the favoured route to rwd? Transaxle from a 75 would be hens teeth over here I suspect, so any off the shelf adaptor solutions anyone knows about? If not an aj16 with supercharger might be an option, or an auidi v8. I'd love to do a barra in an old Ford pick up, but even without running gear old trucks are serious money over here, and the route to register them far from straight forward. If a Barra wouldn't fit I'm not sure an AJ6/AJ16 would either. They're not small engines! 33.5" long from gearbox face to front of the pulley, 25" tall at the front (shallow end of the sump) and 27" tall at the back (deep end). I measured my AJ6 if it helps: Oh, and I've seen BMW GS6 gearboxes fitted to Alfa Bussos, but not sure if there's a kit, and not sure if it's the 37BZ or 53BZ. I expect the 37 would be fine for 300ish hp and is a bit easier to package. Both have the same bolt pattern, but not sure about flywheel and clutch.
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2021 8:29:35 GMT by biturbo228
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Badger
Part of things
Posts: 250
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Sept 17, 2021 12:40:39 GMT
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Volvo B234 engines- old 8v technology, but should be fairly reliable 300hp ish with new rods and a bigger turbo. Also comes with RWD gearboxes.
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Sept 17, 2021 13:02:18 GMT
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What about a Nissan 350z engine, the later ones had 306bhp - VQ35HR 3.5L V6, sound great & come with a 6 speed manual. They get used for drifting so cant be too bad for reliabity/tunning
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2021 13:05:26 GMT by joem83
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Sept 19, 2021 14:46:55 GMT
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Right out of left-field...what about a humble Jaguar AJ-V6 3.0 (aka a Ford Duratec V6 3.0)? Get one from an S-Type or XF with 240bhp out of the box for peanuts and play. This guy seems to be getting 270bhp without too much trouble: drive-my.com/300bhp-jaguar-aj30-3-0-litre-v6-engined-mgb/
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Last Edit: Sept 19, 2021 14:47:26 GMT by daklone
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Badger
Part of things
Posts: 250
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Sept 20, 2021 17:14:32 GMT
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Right out of left-field...what about a humble Jaguar AJ-V6 3.0 (aka a Ford Duratec V6 3.0)? Get one from an S-Type or XF with 240bhp out of the box for peanuts and play. This guy seems to be getting 270bhp without too much trouble: drive-my.com/300bhp-jaguar-aj30-3-0-litre-v6-engined-mgb/ They turbo well, 300-400 out of those reliably should be fairly easy. But beware the rebuild costs - the head bolts are stretch, cost about £12 each and there are (from memory) 16 of the buggers.
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Sept 22, 2021 7:25:12 GMT
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Jag v6 have a really long water pump and weird inlet, Audi is much more compact, but you have to adapt a RWD box
you can get an entire audi V8 or V6 car for very little
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Sept 22, 2021 12:02:36 GMT
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A LS for simplicity, they seem to just work and are a really neat package This^^^^^ Everytime. Any of the early variants will easily give what you need wiithout any mods at all. By far the simplest engine out there. Indeed, i doubt there is an engine in current or recent production with less moving parts. Aftermarket support is unrivalled, albeit US based. Use a cable throttle variant with matching ECU and you can enable lean cruise functionality. With this switched on, and tinkered with, i get 24 mpg locally, 29 on a run. In a vehicle that weighs 1650kg. As alluded to earlier, the 5.3 variants are the budget go to engine.
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2003 Holden SS Ute 1973 Triumph Stag 1970 Triumph 2000 Estate with RV8 1980 Triumph Dolomite Sprint 1969 Dodge Charger R/T SE 1960 Standard Atlas Importer of Pedders Suspension products
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Sept 22, 2021 14:10:55 GMT
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What vehicle is it to go into and have you spoken to an engineer about what is going to be allowed and getting the modifications certified?
What about turbo or supercharging the old Holden V6 from a Commodore should be plenty cheap to buy and the electrics including those for the auto box are pretty easy to sort out.
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Sept 22, 2021 15:58:24 GMT
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Another off the wall suggestion, the 6 from the Aussie Chrysler's is capable of making serious power and even more with forced induction.
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75swb
Beta Tester
Posts: 1,046
Club RR Member Number: 181
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Sept 23, 2021 5:18:32 GMT
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What vehicle is it to go into and have you spoken to an engineer about what is going to be allowed and getting the modifications certified? What about turbo or supercharging the old Holden V6 from a Commodore should be plenty cheap to buy and the electrics including those for the auto box are pretty easy to sort out. Very good questions indeed dodgerover. Anything it goes in will end up over threshold so lvvta scratchbuilt: I'll hit the local cert guy up when I have a more solid plan but shan't waste his time with idle ideas for now. Thankfully the scratch build bible is free download now so acquainting myself with it. I'd seen a 2 seater kit car I'd quite liked, but given the work it'll take I'm currently leaning towards dropping a classic pickup on a more modern chassis and just committing some more capital to it. Will likely be a manual whatever it is!
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75swb
Beta Tester
Posts: 1,046
Club RR Member Number: 181
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Sept 23, 2021 5:19:00 GMT
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Another off the wall suggestion, the 6 from the Aussie Chrysler's is capable of making serious power and even more with forced induction. Wasn't aware of these! Will have a look.
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Sept 23, 2021 8:23:45 GMT
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Two-seater sportscar = inline six for me. The vee configuration does not lend itself to the sleek lines of a sportscar. The big three cars Aussie companies have all produced a lot of sweet inline sixes over the decades.
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Sept 23, 2021 8:39:27 GMT
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Apparently, a Busso V6 into the earlier 105/115 chassis is a popular swap. Using the 105/115 gearbox, Dig around on Alfa forums for more info.
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