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Nov 13, 2007 11:12:18 GMT
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In the good old days (think beam axles and crossplys) there were lots of car companies all of which made certain types of cars. As a result Land Rover became famous for 4X4s and Porsche became famous for sports cars. Jaguar meanwhile were good at a luxury saloon, Ford for something practical and Skoda if you were just plain skint. The world was a happy simple place where depending on what kind of vehicle you wanted you knew who to buy it off. Then everybody started buying everyone else, but that didn't matter because they kept the old names and played on their strengths, so us simple consumers still knew were they were up to. For those of us who don't have MBA's this is a basic introduction to what I will call 'Brand Identity' and those boys in Detroit and Wolfsburg stumped up serious money to get their hands on the rights to various shiny nameplates with leaping cats and charging bulls and whatever on. OK, so the world was a better place. You could still buy what you wanted by going to the right dealership, the only development being that due to lots of nice technology transfer your V12 supercar started on cold mornings just like a diesel hatchback. Then, around the turn of the millennium something really, really stupid happened. All these car companies, who were all owned by the same people anyway, started to make other types of cars. Now you can buy a supercar from Audi, a 4X4 from Porsche, a diesel estate car from Jaguar and a luxury saloon from VW. Great in the short term if you've always wanted a Porsche but have 3 kids or you've had a bad knock on the head and desire a £60K VW, but at the centre of this is a very sad fact that will be really, really bad for the industry. Our children (wherever they are) will think Lamborghini make 1.9TDi people carriers and Skoda has just had a third consecutive 1,2,3 at Le Mans, and when I can finally buy a Lamborghini when I'm 76 they'll laugh at me and claim it's only got a heated rear window to keep your hands warm when your pushing it! It's our duty to show, here and now, what car manufacturers do well. I'll start you off, please chime in with your own Volkswagen: Smallish cars, well built, perhaps with a sporty option. Prime example, the Golf Mk2 Rolls Royce: You've got staff to drive it for you, to open the doors, hold your umbrella, the car should be big and dignified. I give you the Silver Cloud III Ford: Made for the family or the rep. Easy to fix, handling a bit lairy in the wet, choice of 20 Weber carbs to upgrade. The Cortina Austin: Smallish on the outside, roomy inside. Badge engineering should be banned because this should never be a Riley / MG / Morris / Van den Plas etc. The Austin 1100, just perfect Renault: This is a tough one - do I chose the 5 or 12? Should be simple, cheap, small but quite big inside. There should be a clever feature or two that doesn't work very well, for example 5 gears on the R12 but you can only have 4 of them most of the time. Soft suspension, cloth seats that snag your fingernails, yellow headlights.
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Nov 13, 2007 11:36:52 GMT
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Hi Gareth,
like the idea of your thread, and you´re right. God i can remember when Mercedes only built 3 different types of cars and VW wern´t much better.
But don´t underestimate the youth of today. They´ve grown up with all this modern cr@p and i challenge you to catch my two teenage lads out.
If there´s some modern rubbish out in front of us and i start winging on about how good the "good old days" were but haven´t got the foggiest what it is, the lads allways chirp up with the " Oh dad that the new plastic DI Daewoo thingy or what ever..!! ;D
I think it´s probably just us "old gits" who cant keep up!! ;D
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,514
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Nov 13, 2007 11:37:02 GMT
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Well, to keep the French theme of your last suggestion, Citroen should clearly only ever make baffling cars with lots of bizarre technology no-one else thinks is worthwhile using. XM/ZX era closed that chapter I think?
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Nov 13, 2007 11:48:07 GMT
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Full marks for Citroen, but do you think it should be a smaller car rather than the DS size? oldbus, I'd forgotten about Merc. They've pretty much been making this car since the 1950s which is spot-on in my book. Slowish, tough (really tough!) and if it does less than 300,000 miles they'll probably give you a new one for free. Fiat: Needs to be small and driven hard all the time. I drove through France in my big powerful car a few years ago at 100mph and the only thing that gave me trouble was a tiny Fiat on Italian plates that had probably been flat out for the last 600 miles. I respectfully present the Fiat 127 Aston Martin - pure aristocrat. A straight 6 engine, gearchange like a rifle bolt and needing at least £2000 at every service. £10,000 for big services, obviously. It should bankrupt the company if at all possible. The engine should howl at full throttle and crackle on the overrun. Cream of the crop, the DB4
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2007 11:49:16 GMT by garethj
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Nov 13, 2007 11:51:57 GMT
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You're right, its similar for a lot of products. quite topical, as were having a bit of a 'Santas Grotto' day at work and were chatting the same. I mean, explain to old folks that Bush raidios are no brand import badged up 'Alba' type things, but at least they are brands we relate to! Its tricky to buy owt or associate owt these days, everyone seems to do everything. Skoda for example can't shake the (Mr) stigma, despite being posh Luxury cut price VW's now. Porsche WTF! talk about diversifying for market trends ;D Diesel Jags based on Mongdeos. its mad it is! Land Rover chelsea tractors, Ladas seem to not sell much here now, but people hapily buying random brands imported in. All part of a wierd evolution I guess. BMW Skoda Octavia
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Nov 13, 2007 12:03:53 GMT
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VW don't make small sporty hatchbacks they make crappy aircooled baked bean tins, you must be too young to play this game.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Nov 13, 2007 12:09:00 GMT
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VW don't make small sporty hatchbacks they make crappy aircooled baked bean tins, you must be too young to play this game. popuptoaster in "I hate aircooled VWs" jibe shocker I think the early Golfs follow a similar theme to Beetles - smallish, well built and a bit sporty (compared to other stuff around in the 1950s) Look how well they did in rallys, autotesting, grasstrack racing in the 50s and 60s. Anyway, the floor is yours mate - share your contributions
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Nov 13, 2007 12:15:52 GMT
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Subaru - utilitarian, rust-prone cars with understressed flat-4 engines and 4WD
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BiAS
Club Retro Rides Member
Insert witty comment here
Posts: 2,230
Club RR Member Number: 147
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This manufacturer = this carBiAS
@cheeqi
Club Retro Rides Member 147
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Nov 13, 2007 12:38:45 GMT
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Nissan- ultra reliable cars that go on for ever 'In August 2006, the K10 was still receiving credit for its impressive durability. An Auto Express survey revealed that of the 340,000 K10 Micras registered in the UK between 1983 and 1992, 96,000 were still on the road — nearly 30%, an impressive figure for a car which has been out of production for 14 years. This gave it a far higher rating than the Fiat Uno and the Austin Metro, both of which had dwindled away to less than 3%.'
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(car+wheels)-rideheight=WIN
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Nov 13, 2007 13:58:29 GMT
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don't get me started on beetles rally sucess, I have the same thing all the time from skoda fans, if your the ONLY car in the rear engined under 1600cc class you CANT lose unless you don't finish! Sorry though I DO dislike the air cooled VW's I can see why others love em, and I pretty much agree with all the other selections in the lists.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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King Maz
Part of things
Only 16 left!
Posts: 378
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Nov 13, 2007 14:03:19 GMT
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Mazda (piston) - under rated, unfussy, innocuousness Mazda (rotary) - exotic, free-brrping, fallingoverness
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Nov 13, 2007 14:11:00 GMT
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don't get me started on beetles rally sucess, I have the same thing all the time from skoda fans, if your the ONLY car in the rear engined under 1600cc class you CANT lose unless you don't finish! Rallys in the 50s and early 60s were very different, more like endurance events which suited tough cars with good traction, nothing to do with class wins like some of the Skodas were doing in the 80s (I think?) Anyway, the point is drifting which wasn't my intention! BMW: Sporty saloons, not necessarily at the forefront of technology but well screwed together and quite pretty in a harsh, German sort of way. Encourages fast driving and you'll probably crash one if your enthusiasm is higher than your ability. I give you the 2002
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Nov 13, 2007 14:14:55 GMT
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Land Rover. They did very well with the Range Rover I agree, but I think they lost direction after that. There's only 2 man made objects you can see from space, the great wall of china and the panel gaps on a Land Rover Discovery. Play to your strengths and produce tough, crude stuff like this. So what it's got a few dented panels, it looks better like that. The spare tyre on the bonnet probably gets an extra star in the NCAP rating. My favouorite, the Series 3 109 Station Wagon
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2007 14:33:52 GMT by garethj
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Nov 13, 2007 14:40:34 GMT
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Audi: For people who want something a bit upmarket but who don't want to be flash. Medium size saloons that are either FWD or 4WD, tough old things that generally last a long time until you get a service bill which is 3 times the value of the complete car. I love the Audi 80 Saab: Is it because of their aircraft heritage or just because they're all mad as a box of frogs? Whatever the reason they find a way of doing it differently. Not as mad as the curvy 96 cars but keeping FWD and a heater that will boil the sweat in your shoes. They crash well too. The Saab 99
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2007 14:41:25 GMT by garethj
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Nov 13, 2007 16:41:51 GMT
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want a car that will cross the whole of Africa (vertically) and still be up for teh return journey I give you the Peugeot 404 and 504 Peugeot - tough as old boots cars with a utilitarian gallic style
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This space available to rent. Reach literally dozens of people. Cheap rates!
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Nov 13, 2007 17:09:20 GMT
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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Nov 13, 2007 18:10:28 GMT
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VW don't make small sporty hatchbacks they make crappy aircooled baked bean tins, you must be too young to play this game. <stifled laughter> Vauxhall. For making simple, reliable, cheap, economical motoring which still had the edge to make you want to own one. I give you the Cavalier SRi with the finest eight valve engine by a country mile ever made. Fun, fast, torquey, practical, ace laugh to drive and bullet proof mechanicals. Vauxhall also bought us the wonders of stuff like the Astra Mk1 and Mk2 GTE, GSi Cavalier, Mk2 Cavalier SRi 130, Nova GTE and quite a few others. Often looked down upon by some badge snobs it was they who missed out...
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Nov 13, 2007 18:38:29 GMT
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Daihatsu: Boring economy cars made solely so their mechanics can amuse themselves producing ridiculous turbocharged versions.
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suzuki, tiny cars, tiny engines, always far more capable then they deserve to be.
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Remade In Australia thereimaginarium.com.au
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Holden - RWD European sedan sized cars with american sized engines and quality somewhere inbetween
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Remade In Australia thereimaginarium.com.au
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