93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 13:54:26 GMT
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It means they've got themselves into a hole, and are desperately looking for a way to get out of it! 😀 Otherwise it's the official version of 'application? What application??' and it's gone in the circular file Edit- just reread that, think I got out of bed the wrong side this morning! 😳 Think you did, but no worries things will get less worse Ttfn Glenn With what is happening now, you might have been very accurate Ttfn Glenn
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Last Edit: Oct 28, 2021 13:59:53 GMT by 93fxdl
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93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 13:57:55 GMT
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Surely one of the vehicles has the correct ID I'd be argueing with them to do their job Will be fighting this, mine has genuine intact chassis numbers, so is entitled to the v5 But more importantly, I need to fight this, otherwise every barnfind, lost v5 etc could be slapped with a Q plate Ttfn Glenn
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Oct 28, 2021 14:11:37 GMT
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Surely one of the vehicles has the correct ID I'd be argueing with them to do their job It sounds to me like they have, and their consensus is the other buggy owns the ID.
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93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 14:33:39 GMT
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Surely one of the vehicles has the correct ID I'd be argueing with them to do their job It sounds to me like they have, and their consensus is the other buggy owns the ID. They have decided to void the registration so nobody has it, Ttfn Glenn
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Oct 28, 2021 14:41:51 GMT
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Does your vehicle have enough components to retain the identity under the 8 point rule, if so then I don't see how they can void the registration unless they don't believe yours is the correct vehicle for the vin and the other one doesn't have enough parts to meet the rule.
It would be interesting to know what the inspectors report on your car said but I assume that they won't tell you?
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93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 14:50:22 GMT
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Does your vehicle have enough components to retain the identity under the 8 point rule, if so then I don't see how they can void the registration unless they don't believe yours is the correct vehicle for the vin and the other one doesn't have enough parts to meet the rule. It would be interesting to know what the inspectors report on your car said but I assume that they won't tell you? Definitely beat the 8 point rule, it was registered as a beach buggy So chassis, suspension steering, gearbox body, all ok only change, it has a replacement engine. Just have to wait and see what happens, and also if they refund my v5 fee? Ttfn Glenn
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
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One vin two carsDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Oct 28, 2021 15:24:07 GMT
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Fight it. If you make enough of a nuisance of yourself they concede eventually.
They may act like their word is final in all matters but it isn’t.
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93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 15:43:56 GMT
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Fight it. If you make enough of a nuisance of yourself they concede eventually. They may act like their word is final in all matters but it isn’t. I have too, not only for myself but to prevent a precedent being set. Been trying to be polite, now is time to play dirty I bought what turned out to be, a correctly registered classic buggy, which had its ID used to ring another buggy. Why should I loose that identity Ttfn Glenn
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
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Oct 28, 2021 16:26:22 GMT
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Surely one of the vehicles has the correct ID I'd be argueing with them to do their job It sounds to me like they have, and their consensus is the other buggy owns the ID. Oh, I read it, both vehicles have lost it 🤔
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Oct 28, 2021 16:34:04 GMT
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Any mileage in getting an independent or owners club inspection? Not tried with DVLA, but has worked for me against insurance companies
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93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 16:51:16 GMT
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Any mileage in getting an independent or owners club inspection? Not tried with DVLA, but has worked for me against insurance companies Theres already been an inspection by their subcontractors, just need to wait till I find out what they mean by Q plate. Ttfn Glenn
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Oct 28, 2021 17:16:24 GMT
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It sounds to me like they have, and their consensus is the other buggy owns the ID. Oh, I read it, both vehicles have lost it 🤔 Re-reading it, I think you're right and I've got the wrong end of the stick.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:28:21 GMT
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It's the only outcome I thought it would be. It will 100% be IVA (for both cars).
Kev Rooney has written a booklet about registration rules which is available for £10 going to charity.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:34:24 GMT
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I wonder if the other car also has the VIN number 'correctly' stamped into it and so they have two cars with the same VIN's that the inspectors say look genuine and therefore its easiest to just cancel both and make them reregister.
Unless the inspector is an expert in VW vin stamping they probably wouldn't know whether it was correct so its stamped using proper stamps it might not be immediately obviously.
I bought a set of chassis stamps for a kitcar I built so I could stamp the chassis number the DVLA allocated to me into the frame, with a bit of care the finished number looked very offical and if it were a production vehicle only the font type and size would have given away that its not genuine.
Can you get your chassis number checked by a VW club recognised by the DVLA and get them to confirm that the number in your car is correct and stamped by VW (right font, size, location etc.) and then see whether they would consider a representive of that club inspecting the other vehicle on the DVLA's behalf to verify the same.
One of them must be correct and one must have been stamped in by someone, it would be highly unlikely that someone would have the correct VW stamps to reproduce the chassis number exactly and there would be signes of welding or something where the old number had been removed.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:40:48 GMT
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I found this picture of a 1969 VW Beetle VIN number showing the font/style, I assume yours would be similar to this although the style/font/location could have changed throughout the years and only a VW expert would know this.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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One vin two carsDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Oct 28, 2021 17:44:31 GMT
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I’ve seen the vin number on this car. As a VW expert of some 20 years (including doing insurance valuations and inspections) it is 100% legit as it left Wolfsburg.
The problem is as stated above. The third party inspectors the dvla use are not marque experts and can’t tell the difference between a legit number and something done with a £20 set of machine mart stamps.
What will have happened is someone has taken the alloy body tag originally from the front wheelwell of the beetle and swapped it to the other buggy, Proably from this buggy rather than from the original beetle shell. Leaving the original stamped chassis under this buggy but giving both of them legit looking parts. The ID should stay with this buggy though as it’s the chassis it belongs to.
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Last Edit: Oct 28, 2021 17:51:48 GMT by Dez
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Oct 28, 2021 19:31:52 GMT
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I would be writing asking how to appeal as they aren't following their own rules.
Incidentally after reading this i'm worried myself over the possiblity of something similar coming back to bite me. I bent the frame of my trials bike back in the early 90s, I fitted a new frame and stamped it up with the old number. Eventually I straightened the old frame out enough to make a field bike out of with a mismatch of parts I had kicking about which I then sold, now time had moved on it's worth quite a bit! I'm hoping it's dead and gone though!
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Last Edit: Oct 28, 2021 22:18:49 GMT by dodgerover
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Oct 28, 2021 20:00:35 GMT
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Yeah, good luck with that - they don't know their own rules, they just ask the most senior person in that day and that decision is final.
The stupid thing is - they insist you follow their rules - but if you ask for a copy you only get "each car is evalueated on its own merits"
It's actually quite criminal really.
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93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 20:25:12 GMT
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It's the only outcome I thought it would be. It will 100% be IVA (for both cars). Kev Rooney has written a booklet about registration rules which is available for £10 going to charity. It should not be iva for mine as it was correctly registered as a buggy when it was built back in the 70s from a late 50s beetle. Still retains original running gear, suspension steering etc, the shell is an early 70s one also, so all ties together If I was to go down the iva route, I would start with more modern running gear Ttfn Glenn
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Last Edit: Oct 28, 2021 20:25:50 GMT by 93fxdl
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Oct 28, 2021 22:42:00 GMT
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But has the floorpan been shortened?
People make the mistake of 'correctly registered' as seeing what they see on the logbook, but DVLA have a more comprehensive file on their computers. It's quite likely that the changes were not oficially entered on their system, so it may say 'buggy' on the V5C but it will still be 'Volkswagen Beetle' on their records.
You can argue with them, but normally the more you do the more they dig in. If they have cancelled the logbook as their letter states and issued you a new VIN number then they will have considered it 'case closed' I'm afraid.
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