|
|
|
Hi retroriders,
I've got a new project on the go, Peugeot 205 Maxi. I'm struggling to decide on what engine I should put it in. I've got my head set on a turbo 4 pot.
I would really like a K20 but the prices of even a half decent one are putting me off and have struggled to find one for sale over the weekend (cheapest I got was £2300). They also require a fair chunk to be taken out of the nearside chassis leg and also hit one of the wishbone mounts - I cannot change my wishbone mounts or space the subframe down as it's a fully custom rose jointed tarmac spec rally setup and don't want to mess with it....so that kinda puts the K20 off the menu.
Other option would be a Saab B204 or a VAG1.8T. I know that the VAG1.8T engine goes in with a little massaging of the front subframe for the diff. I'm not so sure about the B204 as I cannot find anyone that's done it to a 205.
Both B204 and VAG1.8T are pretty cheap to get hold of as a full car. Both can be tuned easily to 300bhp.
The main difference is the vag engine has the manifold/turbo/exhaust on the rear, saab on the front. I'm a little worried with respect to intercooler/radiator clearance on the saab.....but would probably have a similar issue with the vag inlet manifold - although the latter is much easier to change.
Does anyone have any pics of either at all fitted to a 205?
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 22, 2020 9:05:24 GMT by chodjinn
|
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,840
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 11:47:46 GMT
|
I'm not sure about the ones you mention but a lad I know has one with a 306 GTi6 engine and Rotrex supercharger and it was a pretty easy conversion and makes 350bhp.
Out of the 2 you've suggested I'd got 1.8T but price in a engine rebuild with good bits. The Saab engines are massive and weigh a ton.
|
|
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 13:22:49 GMT
|
300bhp on a 20VT turbo from what I understand is on the upper limit. I actually have a bigger hp 20VT turbo project in the garage with a few internal alterations with the hope of pasting 300bhp.
The weak link on the 20VT is the rods from what I understand. I ran a BAM as a daily at 280bhp and it was fantastic. The reason I went with the 20VT was mainly due to engine height. The B204 I was lead to believe was too tall for my application so that may be worth investigating.
The 20VT is a popular choice for the lotus elise/exige owners, they seem to be changing over to them quite regularly with great results. Parts are very readily available, whereas the B204 seems to be thinning out a little and they aren’t as cheap as they once was. I used to be able to buy them from my local yard at £300 all in with loom and ECU. Long gone are those days I suspect.
With that said I do have another vehicle with a B204 earmarked for it in RWD application as I think they’re fantastic engines. Omega boxes bolt up from what I u see stand and can take around 300bhp before they die which ghouls be plenty.
The Volvo T5 engine is another one which I think is great. Straight out of the box they’re cracking, I love mine, plus they sound fantastic! However I suspect you’d struggle to squeeze one in the space you’ve got.
|
|
|
|
Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 14:16:06 GMT
|
300bhp on a 20VT turbo from what I understand is on the upper limit. I actually have a bigger hp 20VT turbo project in the garage with a few internal alterations with the hope of pasting 300bhp. The weak link on the 20VT is the rods from what I understand. I ran a BAM as a daily at 280bhp and it was fantastic. The reason I went with the 20VT was mainly due to engine height. The B204 I was lead to believe was too tall for my application so that may be worth investigating. The 20VT is a popular choice for the lotus elise/exige owners, they seem to be changing over to them quite regularly with great results. Parts are very readily available, whereas the B204 seems to be thinning out a little and they aren’t as cheap as they once was. I used to be able to buy them from my local yard at £300 all in with loom and ECU. Long gone are those days I suspect. With that said I do have another vehicle with a B204 earmarked for it in RWD application as I think they’re fantastic engines. Omega boxes bolt up from what I u see stand and can take around 300bhp before they die which ghouls be plenty. The Volvo T5 engine is another one which I think is great. Straight out of the box they’re cracking, I love mine, plus they sound fantastic! However I suspect you’d struggle to squeeze one in the space you’ve got. T4 engine a possibility?... Pick the right one and they're 20% smaller..
|
|
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 14:33:41 GMT
|
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 22, 2020 14:36:02 GMT by OGDB
|
|
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 16:08:12 GMT
|
Is that a Renault engine?
|
|
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
|
|
mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,954
Club RR Member Number: 77
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 16:28:07 GMT
|
Why not go for ease of fitment and get the XU10 2 litre 8valve turbo from a 406? All the same architecture as the GTI engine, but newer and with a turbo No idea on tuning potential of them tho, but they were very grunty engines in the 406 back in the day when I worked at Peugeot
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 17:49:38 GMT
|
I should clarify, the engine that was in it when it was a rally car was a GTi6 on a Sadev sequential. I don't want to put a GTi6 engine or 406 turbo tbh. I mentioned the B204/VAG1.8T as the both do 300bhp very easily, it would be a lot of work/cost to get that reliably out of a Pug engine.
I've had a Mk1 TT 225bhp befor and that was an awesome engine and took a ton of abuse (I do drive quite hard).
A couple of people have now said that the B204 is heavy, but all in with box it's about the same as the vtec from what I can find out. I'm also not sure about it being overly tall because quite a few people have put them in Corsas which are pretty much the same size as a 205...? I have not actually had a tape on one though.
Today I was moving towards the 1.8T because of the vast tuning scene, cheap parts etc.
That volvo S4 has given me an idea. All aluminium for a start...need to investigate, and thank you for the replies keep the talk going!
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 22, 2020 17:54:10 GMT by chodjinn
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 17:57:17 GMT
|
I also had one in a TT and loved it. It took serious abuse and was super reliable. The BAM from the 225 TT has the desirable pistons with the 19mm pins IIRC. My intentions with my current build is above and beyond 300bhp. There is a lot of information and resources out there which is massively helpful when it comes to building something like this. My biggest problem is finding a suitable gearbox.
The B204 from what I understand is the same, or very similar to the C20XE/LET so will fit in many smaller things, many years ago we used to put them in Novas and corsas and these aren't known for their size. They also fit in Kit cars quite easily so I am sure you wouldn't have any trouble with the B204.
I was recently reading a build blog over on pistonheads, a chap had fitted a 20vt into a MK5 Fiesta ZS which was quite interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 18:20:46 GMT
|
The 225 BAM engines will do 500bhp if you swap the rods out for forged ones. The gearboxes will take it if you don't drive like an idiot, obviously needs supporting clutch mods. Diffs start to get a little worrying at that power as well.
|
|
|
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,840
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
Jun 22, 2020 19:03:37 GMT
|
No way is a B204 the same weight as a K20. K20 is 175kg with ancillaries and gearbox as we weighed one at work a couple of weeks back, and I can comfortably lift a long engine on its own. Saab engine must be somewhere up that sort of weight without the box, complete bottom end alone is heavy enough.
|
|
|
|
Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
|
|
|
B207 is a Z20LET in drag IIRC. B2x4 and B2x5 are the Trionic engines. There also the B202 but that’s going back to the Di+APC days and they don’t fit GM boxes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No way is a B204 the same weight as a K20. K20 is 175kg with ancillaries and gearbox as we weighed one at work a couple of weeks back, and I can comfortably lift a long engine on its own. Saab engine must be somewhere up that sort of weight without the box, complete bottom end alone is heavy enough. From what I found out on the Saab UK group the engines are: B204L is 156Kg. The B206i (B204i without balancer shafts) weighs in at 140kg and the B234i weighs 150kg, plus gearbox (which will be what, 35-45kg est.)
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 23, 2020 6:54:21 GMT by chodjinn
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
|
The 225 BAM engines will do 500bhp if you swap the rods out for forged ones. The gearboxes will take it if you don't drive like an idiot, obviously needs supporting clutch mods. Diffs start to get a little worrying at that power as well. Yes the BAM pistons are the ones to have. I have been reading recently about a chap over on a seat forum, Leon Cupra R forum perhaps. This particular member has had a 20vt at 300bhp on standard internals for around 4 years with no problems. I think this is on the engine code AQU. with my last BAM I got to 280 and was very happy. There are some excellent resources out there. I am using the 058 block for mine, mainly because of the placement of the oil pump. Personally I use the following and have found it very helpful. www.bar-tek-tuning.com/1.8t-engine-codesMy issue is finding a rwd box strong enough for my application, but that's another thread for another time. Have a 20VT in a Lotus.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2020 10:20:22 GMT
|
Keeping my eye out for a 1.8T but I need one pretty quick....!
|
|
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Jun 23, 2020 11:00:52 GMT
|
They came in so many cars there has to be a cheap whole car going somewhere. Gumtree usually has a few Octavia/Seat/MK4 golfs that are pretty cheap and may be viable. This way you potentially get a useable gearbox, driveshafts that can be spliced, loom, ECU, key and transponders, possibly even some useable cooling components.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2020 12:34:55 GMT
|
I've found a few but struggling to find a really cheap one for breaking etc.
|
|
|
|
neil79
Part of things
Posts: 140
|
|
Jun 23, 2020 17:39:18 GMT
|
I've found a few but struggling to find a really cheap one for breaking etc. Out of interest, what do you consider cheap? Most seem to be pretty shagged at anything around a grand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2020 17:53:08 GMT
|
crikey is that K20 really that heavy I built my 240 bhp 2.2 na engine for a lot less than it would have cost to supercharge a gti6 and it weighs less and much simpler to cool, all I need is a standard 205 rad, heat management is a massive issue when you start forcing the air in. I'm still on hydraulic cams and standard head casting, could have gone much wilder on solid tappets and more revs but that's more expense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2020 17:55:02 GMT
|
Why not go for ease of fitment and get the XU10 2 litre 8valve turbo from a 406? All the same architecture as the GTI engine, but newer and with a turbo No idea on tuning potential of them tho, but they were very grunty engines in the 406 back in the day when I worked at Peugeot lame stopgap 150 bhp engine, revs like a diesel, weighs as much as one (40 kilos more than the 130 bhp 1.9) was canned when the 135 bhp 16v was introduced.
|
|
|
|
|