niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 14:38:13 GMT
|
I think it would be really interesting to find out if different regional codes and words used to identify cars influence the scene around those cars in different places.
Look at sizes of engines. In america they will use cubic inches for larger engines, and litres for smaller ones. We all use cc when referring to motorbikes.i wonder if this influences their idea of what a 'big' engine is.
Linguistics can shape our perceptions and vice versa. For example, the English word for cow comes from German. A long time ago in England, the poor people (who looked after the cows as cattle) spoke German and the rich spoke french. There fore the meat from the cow was called by its french name, and became Beef.
|
|
|
|
|
SamV8
South West
Posts: 90
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 14:58:35 GMT
|
I think it would be really interesting to find out if different regional codes and words used to identify cars influence the scene around those cars in different places. Look at sizes of engines. In america they will use cubic inches for larger engines, and litres for smaller ones. We all use cc when referring to motorbikes.i wonder if this influences their idea of what a 'big' engine is. Linguistics can shape our perceptions and vice versa. For example, the English word for cow comes from German. A long time ago in England, the poor people (who looked after the cows as cattle) spoke German and the rich spoke french. There fore the meat from the cow was called by its french name, and became Beef. don't get started on American's and engine sizing, from what I've seen in the past you can have a small block with a larger displacement than some big blocks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 15:21:56 GMT
|
don't get started on American's and engine sizing, from what I've seen in the past you can have a small block with a larger displacement than some big blocks That's because in a general sense the terms "big block" and "small block" refer to bore spacing, not displacement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 16:08:28 GMT
|
Exactly this. We need to separate the "general" approach from the "UK" approach. VW T25 is the best example that comes to my mind. VW T25 does not exist. It is a T3 transporter (Caravelle etc). When reading UK (specialists) websites you may actually believe it is the other way round. It is a national thing. Exactly. As BenzBoy says though, over here I think it may stem from jaguar using it (pretty much the only manufacturer to ever have done so). Because it’s viewed an upmarket thing people think it’s classy to use it. It’s dumb. Uk VW owners are some of the worst but also the most hypocritical. In Europe a mk2 golf is a typ19 to literally everyone. But over here it’s a mk2. But if you own a polo it’s perfectly normal to say ‘6n polo’ 🤷♂️ I guess that’s mostly cos no one can agree what mark a 6n is though.... Most of the times it’s just causes confusion. I’m on a ford ranger owners group and they refer to them as mk1/mk2/mk3/mk4. Given the mk1 ranger is actually the mk4 Mazda B-series rebadged, this is beyond stupid, they all have separate 4 digit chassis codes that are printed everywhere all over the vehicle and are easy to see and prevent any confusion so why not just use it. It seems to me that we're slowly falling into line with the rest of Europe with it. Most people will now refer to Vauxhalls after about the mid-90s the same as our continental cousins - Corsa B, Omega B, etc. Although some things still persist, like the Mk7 Golf (I have no idea what its factory code is). Having said that, on European parts sites like Autodoc I have seen Golfs and the like referred to as Golf III, IV and so on. So perhaps they do use a similar unofficial reference but just drop the "mark"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 16:23:44 GMT
|
I like all the different naming conventions for different models. It's a good way to judge what questions to ask people.
If someone tells you they are into cars and have a golf and you ask what kind, if they say "a red 04 one", then they are probably a top gear watcher and know the halo/supercars.
If the golf owner said "a type 19 mk2 in Nevada beige" then you can go full nerd.
|
|
|
|
niwid
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,743
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 17:20:29 GMT
|
I like all the different naming conventions for different models. It's a good way to judge what questions to ask people. If someone tells you they are into cars and have a golf and you ask what kind, if they say "a red 04 one", then they are probably a top gear watcher and know the halo/supercars. If the golf owner said "a type 19 mk2 in Nevada beige" then you can go full nerd. Absolutely this! It's a great way to guage how to have a conversation with someone about cars. Even with exactly the same car, "I've got a tornado red early Mk2 facelift breadvan" is gonna lead to a different car chat than "a retro polo".
|
|
|
|
retrolegends
Club Retro Rides Member
Winging it.....Since 1971.
Posts: 3,717
Club RR Member Number: 94
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 17:44:49 GMT
|
|
|
1974 Hillman Avenger 1500DL1992 Volvo 240SE1975 Datsun Cherry 100a flying custard1965 Hillman SuperMinx Rock N Roller1974 Austin Allegrat Mk1 1.3SDL1980 Austin Allegro Mk3 1.3L1982 Austin Allegro Mk3 on banded steels2003 Saab 9-3 Convertible 220bhp TurboNutter1966 Morris Minor 1000 (Doris) 2019 Abarth 595C Turismo (not retro but awesome fun) www.facebook.com/DatsunCherry100a
|
|
braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,597
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 18:21:00 GMT
|
We need to separate the "general" approach from the "UK" approach. VW T25 is the best example that comes to my mind. VW T25 does not exist. It is a T3 transporter (Caravelle etc). Oh, if it was only this simple! For a very long time all vw busses, transporters, crew & single cabs were called the vw type 2, because it was the second car range after the type 1, the beetle and its relatives which share the same floor pan. They just added additional numbers like type 14 (= Karmann Ghia 14), Type 147 (Fridolin) or type 15 (Beetle convertible). This lead to the type 3 (incl. Karmann Ghia type 34) and 4 (which even had the 4 in the names: 411 and 412). This did not end with vw building aircooled cars. The followers of the beetle, the first and second generation of the golf, still started with 1 (mk1 = type 17, mk1 convertible = type 155, mk2 = 19E). Golf mk3 then was internally called the 1H, mk4 became 1J, but I´m not sure if this was still in the same tradition. Going back to busses: in 1990 VW started building the type 70, but they called it the T4, for what ever reason. And this started a new area, as the next generation became the T5, T6,... Only then people began to call earlier busses with engines in the back T2. All of them, because many people thought it was short for Type 2. That´s why for a long time there was a disagreement, which bus was the T2. After market parts offered for the T2 did not fit to the second generation, but many dealers offered them for T2, later they wrote T2/3. I think the english term T25 (I don´t know if any other region in the world uses this term? Americans always called it the vanagon, but I guess it was the official name like caravelle in europe?) But during time people structured the whole range of busses and called the older ones according their generation: T1 (split window), T2 (bay window), T3 (wedge). This certainly helped in differing. By the way: T25 is not that wrong. Certain models are actually types 251 or 255 for example, depending on configuration: window busses or vans, seats or cargo space, etc.
|
|
|
|
goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 18:34:02 GMT
|
The third incarnation of the Austin Maxi is the Maxi 2, good old Leyland 😂 And it's not the only time they did it, the first Triumph Spitfire was the Spitfire 4. Obviously followed by the Spitfire Mk2...
|
|
|
|
urbanaw
Part of things
Posts: 249
Club RR Member Number: 17
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 19:32:04 GMT
|
We need to separate the "general" approach from the "UK" approach. VW T25 is the best example that comes to my mind. VW T25 does not exist. It is a T3 transporter (Caravelle etc). Oh, if it was only this simple! For a very long time all vw busses, transporters, crew & single cabs were called the vw type 2, because it was the second car range after the type 1, the beetle and its relatives which share the same floor pan. They just added additional numbers like type 14 (= Karmann Ghia 14), Type 147 (Fridolin) or type 15 (Beetle convertible). This lead to the type 3 (incl. Karmann Ghia type 34) and 4 (which even had the 4 in the names: 411 and 412). This did not end with vw building aircooled cars. The followers of the beetle, the first and second generation of the golf, still started with 1 (mk1 = type 17, mk1 convertible = type 155, mk2 = 19E). Golf mk3 then was internally called the 1H, mk4 became 1J, but I´m not sure if this was still in the same tradition. Going back to busses: in 1990 VW started building the type 70, but they called it the T4, for what ever reason. And this started a new area, as the next generation became the T5, T6,... Only then people began to call earlier busses with engines in the back T2. All of them, because many people thought it was short for Type 2. That´s why for a long time there was a disagreement, which bus was the T2. After market parts offered for the T2 did not fit to the second generation, but many dealers offered them for T2, later they wrote T2/3. I think the english term T25 (I don´t know if any other region in the world uses this term? Americans always called it the vanagon, but I guess it was the official name like caravelle in europe?) But during time people structured the whole range of busses and called the older ones according their generation: T1 (split window), T2 (bay window), T3 (wedge). This certainly helped in differing. By the way: T25 is not that wrong. Certain models are actually types 251 or 255 for example, depending on configuration: window busses or vans, seats or cargo space, etc. Yes, I have simplified/shortened the entire story. Still, type 251 is no more T25 than it is T3. US Vanagon was model name just as Multivan here in Europe. The fact that some specialist sites read 'T25 sometimes called T3' is quite funny IMO. I think the full story describes the entire issue and fits the subject very well indeed. Interesting no matter how you look at it.
|
|
|
|
|
braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,597
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 20:04:12 GMT
|
Having said that, on European parts sites like Autodoc I have seen Golfs and the like referred to as Golf III, IV and so on. So perhaps they do use a similar unofficial reference but just drop the "mark"? You´re right, we germans don´t know the term Mark or Mk, only when we talk about the Jaguar Mk2. For us it´s Golf 1, Golf 2, Golf 3 and so on or 1er Golf, 2er Golf (spoken Einser Golf, Zweier Golf). Other than Opel, who always used letters: Kadett A, B, C,... Funny fact: your Vauxhall Astra Mk 1 was our Opel Kadett D, Astra M2 was Kadett E, then came the first Opel Astra, but they did not start with A again, no, after the Kadett E came the Astra F! You say BMW 3 series, we say 3er BMW, but then differ between E21, E30 and so on. Our first Ford Scorpio was your third (gen) Ford Granada.
|
|
|
|
skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 20:22:56 GMT
|
PSA stuff is quite easy if its euro... 205 has phase1, phase 1.5, phase2, Yet isn't it weird I would refer to an AX as either Mk1 or Mk2. Same with with the 106 and saxo and even then it's just a bunch of subtle changes to the dashboard, rear bootlid area, clear indicators, chevrons centralised and different grill. technically there was a mk 1.5 where they changed the grill again and the steering wheel, added other bits and bobs for the run out models.......
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 20:54:33 GMT
|
Having said that, on European parts sites like Autodoc I have seen Golfs and the like referred to as Golf III, IV and so on. So perhaps they do use a similar unofficial reference but just drop the "mark"? You´re right, we germans don´t know the term Mark or Mk, only when we talk about the Jaguar Mk2. For us it´s Golf 1, Golf 2, Golf 3 and so on or 1er Golf, 2er Golf (spoken Einser Golf, Zweier Golf). Other than Opel, who always used letters: Kadett A, B, C,... Funny fact: your Vauxhall Astra Mk 1 was our Opel Kadett D, Astra M2 was Kadett E, then came the first Opel Astra, but they did not start with A again, no, after the Kadett E came the Astra F! You say BMW 3 series, we say 3er BMW, but then differ between E21, E30 and so on. Our first Ford Scorpio was your third (gen) Ford Granada. I was hoping someone from Germany would see this thread and clarify that - thanks! Out of interest, what is the Ford Escort Mk1, Mk2 etc referred to over there? I suspect the reason Brits tend to use "Mark 1, Mark 2" etc to differentiate generations is the fault of the marketers back in the day, and they introduced the Mk2 such-and-such in their advertising. Whereas in other parts of Europe it was different terminology. I can't imagine any manufacturer's advertisements using the internal factory designations, however.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 20:56:48 GMT
|
Yet isn't it weird I would refer to an AX as either Mk1 or Mk2. Same with with the 106 and saxo and even then it's just a bunch of subtle changes to the dashboard, rear bootlid area, clear indicators, chevrons centralised and different grill. technically there was a mk 1.5 where they changed the grill again and the steering wheel, added other bits and bobs for the run out models....... French stuff seems to be referred to as Phase 1, Phase 2 etc. At least in the UK. Does this come from the manufacturers or has it sprung up out of somewhere else?
|
|
|
|
skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 21:03:18 GMT
|
It's a Renault/Peugeot thing, Citroen just did whatever they felt like.....much like their cars
Actually it maybe a translation thing.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 21:24:04 GMT
|
BMW have that lci thing, lifestyle something something, which is a facelift. Like e90 lci, different front and rear lights. Suppose they could have gone e90.5 or e90 series 2, e90 rev2 etc etc.
Good idea this ChasR
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 21:30:53 GMT
|
Mind blown
|
|
|
|
scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
|
|
Apr 29, 2020 21:39:36 GMT
|
Porsche 911 anyone 😂
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not sure where the designations even come from sometimes.
For example, I worked at the Honda factory in Swindon for 10 years. I worked on, and sourced parts for, the 01 Civic and the 06 Civic. I had absolutely no idea they were known as anything else until I moved to Australia and started to see them referred to as EP and FK.
It seems more common in Australia and I think comes from the fact they always seem to have had a code that is used on the local compliance documentation. The Holden Commodore for example had VB, VC, VH, VL, VN, VP, VR, VS, VT, VX, VY, VZ, VE, VE, VF, ZB. VE and VF both had series 2 versions as well. Each model then has model years within it, so there are things like a MY9.5 VE for example, and those model years typically had tweaks to make them different to the preceding MY, usually colours but also equipment especially close to runout.
Add in the fact that a MY normally starts production in the August of the preceding year, and it starts to get confusing. 2012 built MY13 VF anyone?
|
|
1982 Mercedes 280TE
|
|
fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,592
|
|
Apr 30, 2020 11:07:39 GMT
|
More confusion . . .
Spitfire 4 ? A Mk 4? No, the original spitfire (4 for 4 cylinder), only referred to as the Mk1 when the Mk2 appeared, then the Mk3 and then the Mk4 (not to be confused with the Spitfire 4 which was the Mk1 - but not until the Mk2 appeared.) What came after the Mk 4? The Mk 5 surely? Nope, that was called the Spitfire 1500 . . . .
Humber Super Snipe : first there was the Mk 1 - 4 followed by the Series 1 - 5 . . . . Humber Hawk : Mk 1 - 6 followed by Series 1 - 4 . . . .
|
|
|
|
|