moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815 
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Mar 21, 2020 23:37:37 GMT
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Please no horror stories of injuries on this thread.....thanks  So for many years, I've always run two or more angle grinders. One exclusively for slitting discs, the other for everything else. A very good fabricator taught me a long time ago, to take the guard off, concentrate on the job in hand, understand the tool and treat it like a scalpel, and you'll be fine. He was right, nothing more than a plaster was ever needed. In one of my build threads, there was a grinder in the background with a slitting disc and no guard. There followed tales of woe, worry for my personal safety and impending doom. Those were heartfelt messages from people I know and respect, so I listened, and put the guard back on my Makita  My favourite "scalpel" was now a blunt scythe - I hated it. The huge guard caught everywhere. Sparks were bouncing off of the guard into my face. I couldn't see to cut a straight line. It was horrid, and I was convinced it was an accident about to happen , because I was so used to a naked grinder, and this was catching and bucking everywhere. But there were still the messages from the thread in the back of my mind..... So I took the guard off........ To cut it down to size !! A little off of the radius, but a lot out of the height, by cutting a slice about 10-12mm out of the guard and welding both halves back together.  Tidied up, a smidge of paint, and refitted.  Oh my - sooo much better. Almost as good as a naked cutting wheel, but with a reduced risk for cutting off my fingers. A couple of postscripts. This will probably only work for you if you have multiple grinders A ginder with a slitting disc still demands ultimate respect regardless of what guard is fitted. Hope it helps. |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Bloody brilliant, no pun intended.
The amount of tv/Internet (mostly internet) programmes which show unguarded grinder use really annoys me. Fairy nuff if you know the risks and are experienced, but many who watch them aren't.
I know the risks and am quite experienced, but it still gives me the willies using a grinder with no guard.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I agree with your sentiments moglite. I prefer naked myself, and have done for a long time (15 years or so). What pushed me to go that way was a coupe of close calls caused by the guards themselves. Since using without a guard you’re acutely aware of how dangerous a tool it can be, especially small hobby grinders with none of the safety features of more expensive models, and exactly where your hands are when using. Complacency is the biggest danger when using a grinder, and that includes thinking a guard will save you if something goes wrong. Ultimately the guard covers half the wheel, the other half is still very much a danger, and it introduces the issue of things jamming between guard and disc, which is hugely dangerous in itself (that’s where I’ve had close calls in the past). In reality a guard maybe only makes it 25% safer, if that. Fear is also another huge factor. If your jabbing it about at arms length with your head turned away cos your scared, it’s not gunna end well. Smoothness and dexterity are important. But that said, I’d never recommend going guardless to anyone else unless they’re supremely confident in their angle grinder usage and prepared to accept the risks. I might have a look at doing what you’ve done and see if I think it improves it at all. I get a feeling most manufacturers only put on a token effort of a guard to satisfy H&S, as they know most are going to go in the bin anyway, and they could be improved upon a lot. |
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2020 0:33:13 GMT by Dez
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
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I always use a guard now. If sparks are coming towards you excessively then you're in the wrong position or the guard is.
Complacency is my biggest fear with most things. Although in my head I'm convinced some higher body is watching us and holding a clicker. Every time we do anything "dodgy" they count it. When you get to a certain number the consequence of it going wrong gets more... interesting. That's why I now use a guard, wear PPE and drive a lot more sensibly!
I've only had two discs break on me. I was cutting an exhaust off an engine someone was holding steady by hand. *click* *click* Both times they were the 1mm slitting discs which have no mass. They left a nice red mark on my stomach which lasted weeks. Considering how close our face has to get to the workpiece when under a car etc... scary.
I deffo know what I'm talking about as well as I've got a piece of paper from British Abrasives Federation saying so. The paper does say that after 2022 this post means nothing though and I'm 100% dangerous again. 😁
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I have worked as a welder and fabricate doing all sorts for 24 years now so I have a bit of experience . I have used them without guards ok thinking that I needed to take it off to get the thing in somewhere of so I good see what I was doing.
I carried on like this until I started working for big multinational corporation with proper health and safety where I was told in no uncertain terms to use the guard or I would be off. Low and behold it's fine using it you just work around it . Even better to get a grinder with a guard with a flip up quick release catch so you can move it around if needed. Also keep the side handle on , its safer and you have more control.
I really wouldn't use one without now without and think a bit of the case for removing them is because of all the ' hey I'm a cool fabricated on tv ' carp.
It only takes one day of being knackered , pee'd off or in rush to be complacent and then there is nothing between the disc and your wrist , thigh etc. I have seen some horrid injuries done on site with grinders , and I think people need to have a bit of duty of care when posting about these things ad you do get people with no skills at all picking these things up and going hell for leather with it .
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I use the guard unless it’s ABSOLUTELY necessary for access etc, but in the current HSE environment I was amazed to learn that when my boys were at College they were made to take the grinder to a lecturer for disc changes!
They’ve been changing discs on grinders here for years, surely the job of the instructor is to teach them how to change discs safely?
Sorry bit off topic
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Credit to moglite for taking the initiative and looking at adapting the guard to make it work for his method of use - its the rearward face / edge of the disc that would always get you if the disc digs in and kicks back and with some force too - the industrial / professional grinders that I have - run at have speeds in excess of 10,000 rpm - used with care they are fantastic bits of kit but even with many years experience they can occasionally catch you out if something closes up and nips / traps the blade which is why decent protective kit is essential - I would highly recommend a full face shield / mask - decent gloves but not the thick welders type glove has this makes holding the grinder correctly & firmly next to impossible. Many people in industry will hold a qualification for changing abrasive wheels / discs - refacing grinding wheels etc that meets the requirements of the HSE's 'Abrasive Wheels Regulations' which is why in certain institutions that they will insist that the discs / wheels are changed by a qualified / nominated person which is the reasoning behind the point that comfortablynumb makes in his posting above |
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2020 8:59:02 GMT by Deleted
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,763
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Mar 22, 2020 10:02:01 GMT
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Mmmmm angle grinder sand guards, with slitting discs, they do more than protect you, think about when you put it down, the weight of the grinder sits on the cutting disc, the discs are fragile and you can break these with your fingers, and these ones do explode, over the years, I have had a a couple of close encounters with these discs breaking, and bits going thru my jeans and cutting my thigh, very close to my Tabs. and that was with a guard on.
The new generation of grinders cant be locked on so, by the time you put the grinder down it should be stopping or stopped,
A thing not many people realise ALL bonded discs have a sell by dates, and, if working in a factory with active H&S they will bin out of date discs. and its also illegal to sell or use out of date discs.........There is even a HSE course and certificate for the use and changing of discs for hand grinders
Changing Vitreous wheels on bench grinders, there is good reason, they are toxic in as much they contain Silicates, and when using or dressing wheels you release a huge amount of dust which can cause Silicosis, a serious lung disease, many wheels also need truing and balancing, and a wheel out of balance is dangerous thing, Big wheels can weigh easily in excess of 30kg , and one of these wobbling about will ruin your day if it lets go,
For my sins, I used to run and maintain a machine shop, as well as being a union HSE rep, and Nurtured a few engineering apprentices over my nearly 45 years of being an engineer, and never killed one yet,
Be safe and careful, one nano-second and one mistake to maim you for life
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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Mar 22, 2020 10:47:39 GMT
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Mmmmm angle grinder sand guards, with slitting discs, they do more than protect you, think about when you put it down, the weight of the grinder sits on the cutting disc, Not a dig at v8ian more an illustration of why people should do or at least read the industry training. A grinder has two raised lugs or a raised 'bar' on the body head on the opposite side of the wheel. Allow the disc to stop rotating (or if you must rush coz they do that on TV ,slow down) and place the grinder (wheel uppermost) on the lugs/bar.
Most grinders have a max running speed of 10-12k rpm which is on the spec' plate/label. Abrasive discs have a max speed on them, the disc max must exceed the grinder max. Discs also have a date stamped on them usually near the spindle hole collar (shiny metal bit) this is end of safe life based on storing them correctly i.e. removed from the unit stored boxed or hung up within a reasonable temperature range.
I'll see if if i've still got my abrasive disc training stuff and put up a link to it so those that want to can have a read.
I'm not an H&S Nazi just wouldn't want any one to get it wrong and find out what resin bound shrapnel hitting them at high speed feels like.
Right I'm off to run around the house carrying scissors.......  |
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2020 10:52:46 GMT by duggers
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 765
Club RR Member Number: 12
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Mar 22, 2020 11:55:04 GMT
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Larger bench grinder wheels also have a blotting paper style disc on the side of them to indicate if they have been damp.
Also, they should always be stored hung through the centre hole.
I've done the abrasive wheel training but it was years ago now, TBH most of it is common sense.
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2020 11:55:34 GMT by Ritchie
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Mar 22, 2020 13:21:51 GMT
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Larger bench grinder wheels also have a blotting paper style disc on the side of them to indicate if they have been damp. Also, they should always be stored hung through the centre hole. I've done the abrasive wheel training but it was years ago now, TBH most of it is common sense. You’re not allowed common sense any more, you have to have a piece of paper, and be able to sue anybody for anything at any time🙄 |
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Mar 22, 2020 22:59:34 GMT
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A great selection of replies.
For those that do run guards - my mods worked really well on day 1 in the workshop.
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Larger bench grinder wheels also have a blotting paper style disc on the side of them to indicate if they have been damp. Also, they should always be stored hung through the centre hole. I've done the abrasive wheel training but it was years ago now, TBH most of it is common sense. You’re not allowed common sense any more, you have to have a piece of paper, and be able to sue anybody for anything at any time🙄 It's more so you can't sue! "Sorry fella, we sent you on that course and you passed. It's your fault you cut corners and got hurt, not ours. We did all we could to help you." All those courses you get sent on at work are to cover your employers  . |
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Last Edit: Mar 23, 2020 3:12:37 GMT by ferny
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bricol
Part of things
Posts: 285
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Not all grinder discs have dates on - most of my stock was bought before it was deemed necessary . .. which explains why I kept getting bits of disc flying around. I had put it down to my technique, having not done a great deal of work with them for quite a while.
While the modified guard in this thread with stop fingers getting inadvertently trimmed down, I'm not sure it would contain much of a disc that failed, either from date expiry or because it grabbed/snagged.
Because of the full depth guard on my grinder, those discs that broke up had lost a lot of energy by contacting the guard, plus the guard tended to direct the bits away from me.
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Mar 23, 2020 11:05:07 GMT
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I don't suffer much from discs breaking up, so it is less of a worry than my fingers slipping into the spinning wheel.
The only time I have had a disc break up that I could pin-point, was when it got crushed.
Imagine cutting a long bar in half....cut it from the top, and the free end falls away - sweet.
But cut it from the bottom and as it falls it pinches the disc and it shatters.
Simplistic scenario, but cutting away crud from under a rusty car - that is what can happen.
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Mar 23, 2020 11:16:13 GMT
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I don't suffer much from discs breaking up, so it is less of a worry than my fingers slipping into the spinning wheel. The only time I have had a disc break up that I could pin-point, was when it got crushed. Imagine cutting a long bar in half....cut it from the top, and the free end falls away - sweet. But cut it from the bottom and as it falls it pinches the disc and it shatters. Simplistic scenario, but cutting away crud from under a rusty car - that is what can happen. Exactly that, the guard is more useful for keeping your hands away from the disc than containing any explosions. Wonder if anyone is so keen to use their 9 inch without a guard.  |
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Davey
Posted a lot
Resident Tyre Nerd.
Posts: 2,208
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Mar 23, 2020 11:46:05 GMT
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I don't suffer much from discs breaking up, so it is less of a worry than my fingers slipping into the spinning wheel. The only time I have had a disc break up that I could pin-point, was when it got crushed. Imagine cutting a long bar in half....cut it from the top, and the free end falls away - sweet. But cut it from the bottom and as it falls it pinches the disc and it shatters. Simplistic scenario, but cutting away crud from under a rusty car - that is what can happen. Exactly that, the guard is more useful for keeping your hands away from the disc than containing any explosions. Wonder if anyone is so keen to use their 9 inch without a guard. Previous employer did this when cutting damp concrete... Was exciting to be near put it that way. |
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Mar 23, 2020 17:24:18 GMT
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Please no horror stories of injuries on this thread.....thanks I don't know about anybody else but I always install my discs the graphics/stickers lowermost - the reinforcing rings (one on disc and the other on grinder drive head) then encapsulate the disc as I understand it. If you thing about a grinding wheel (as opposed to slitting disc) then when it is installed you always see the reinforcing ring because the discs are - typically - stepped in design. Any thoughts? Matt |
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"Mechanical Power Subduing Animal Speed" (Robert Trevithick, 1808)
'72 BMW 2000 Touring
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'72 BMW 2500
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Mar 23, 2020 17:38:01 GMT
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Please no horror stories of injuries on this thread.....thanks I don't know about anybody else but I always install my discs the graphics/stickers lowermost - the reinforcing rings (one on disc and the other on grinder drive head) then encapsulate the disc as I understand it. If you thing about a grinding wheel (as opposed to slitting disc) then when it is installed you always see the reinforcing ring because the discs are - typically - stepped in design. Any thoughts? Matt Sticker down is the correct way. You have no choice with grinding discs so use that as a reminder. |
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Last Edit: Mar 23, 2020 17:38:28 GMT by ferny
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Mar 23, 2020 18:26:02 GMT
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For years I’ll admit I never used a guard
But a very sad Accident happened to a good friend of ours three summers ago at our weekend retreat
Pal Brian a man in his sixties was using a grinder without a guard cutting some steel the wheel shattered with terrible consequences outside his caravan
Brian was cut open from his throat down to his navel and it was only the quick work of the park security and the Kent air ambulance people that he survived
I’ve seen him a few times since he has never fully recovered
And cannot speak properly and will never be the same again
It’s not something I like to remember, I always use a guard and wear goggles when using one now
Which is very rare these days after that sad day
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Last Edit: Mar 23, 2020 18:26:41 GMT by Mercdan68
Fraud owners club member
1999 Jaguar s type
1993 ford escort
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