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Aug 17, 2019 16:17:36 GMT
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I've agreed to buy a 1973 Dolomite 1850 Automatic and I'm really looking forward to getting it (unfortunately I will not get it until late September)
I don't know a lot about them at all, and would like to here from owners about there experiences with them. I will probably have lots of questions once the car is here but for now I don't really know anything about it.
What are essential or worthwhile mods? Electronic ignition or would you just carry spare points and some tools all the time? Do TR7 wheels fit straight on? Are they fairly comfy to spend time in?
I'm looking for a relaxed cruiser to take me on trips to the Coast, Peak District and other stuff, usually 200 mile or under trips, hoping it will prove a fairly practical car, it has a tow bar, so I can fit a proper bike rack on the back etc.
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Aug 17, 2019 16:44:25 GMT
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Most of our classics have the stealth style electronic ignition fitted in the dizzy, can't see it and never had any problems. Not had a dolly but think that would be worthwhile Have fun
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vader
Part of things
Posts: 425
Club RR Member Number: 93
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Let's talk Dolomite...vader
@vader
Club Retro Rides Member 93
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Aug 17, 2019 17:14:28 GMT
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If they’re anything like a Stag then they’re comfortable, unsure of the gearing of an auto, don’t know if the Revs will be slighly higher than an OD manual. 200 mile trips should be fine I think. I have fitted an electronic ingnition to my Stag which fits in place of points so no nasty metal boxes. Keep an eye on coolant levels and listen for timing chain rattle.
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Triumph Stag Ducati Supersport Shanks’s Pony
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Aug 17, 2019 21:02:48 GMT
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1850 auto has the tallest diff of any Dolomite. At 3.27/1 it's taller even than the Sprint's 3.45. So great for reaxed cruising!
You can get a cheap (and usually reliable) stealth electronic ignition from Accuspark (SimonBBC) and its not expensive. But because the 1850 has the cockeyed Delco distributor with the weights above the points, you have to remove and dismantle the dizzy to fit it. It's worth doing though, for the same reason, changing points in the Delco dizzy is a right mare.
TR7 steel or alloy wheels will fit along with Sprint alloys (common mod) MGF alloys (may need rear arches rolling to fit) MGF 14" steel spare wheels is a popular choice too, the pcd is 3.75"/95.25mm.
When new, the cars were praised for their ride comfort and decent roadholding and they are not bad, even today, but the drivers seat can take a pounding and get very soft and soggy. And if you are 6' tall or more the backrest is a bit low. The TDC (Triumph Dolomite club) can supply new seat diaphragms if yours is duff, or a large number of seats fit from other cars, Rover 45, MGF, MGZR/ZS, Alfa 156, Renault 19 and many others have all been used to good effect. Personally I like the MGF/ZR type, easy to convert, good body hold and comfy too!
There are lots of improvements you can make, depending on your budget, Partial Poly bushing is a good idea, along with solid rack mounts for more steering precision, you can get Spax/Gaz/EVO ASP shox for a bit of lows and more supension control. There is also a vented disc conversion made by a Club member known as Trackerjack to uprate the rather puny brakes. These I heartily recommend, have them on both my 2.0 litre Vauxhall powered Toledo and my 2.2 litre Omega Powered Sprint.
Need any more info, feel free to message me, also the TDC is a great source parts and knowledge, you can join their internet forum without being a club member and have a look see/get advice etc. It IS well worth becoming a member though, if only for access to club made parts. And they are quite tolerant of modded cars too!
Steve
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Aug 17, 2019 21:49:24 GMT
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Hmmmm, thanks for the info.
I have a set of MGF Minilight wheels, but never thought about using the steel spares, might be a cool subtle upgrade! I'm not too tall, so will wait and see what the interior has faired like, but I do have various MG and Rover seats in the spares stash. (I will be changing all this on my MGF anyway)
The car is tatty, but mechanically sound so I'm looking forward to preserving it while still using it as a proper car. Assuming all suspension is reasonably serviceable, I will just improve the brakes for now. I will have a tow bar mounted bike rack, sometimes 2 or 3 bikes with me plus humans and gear, so if it sits low at the back I will probably tailor the suspension to this with something like Gaz adjustable.
Thanks again to everyone so far.
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vader
Part of things
Posts: 425
Club RR Member Number: 93
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Let's talk Dolomite...vader
@vader
Club Retro Rides Member 93
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I have SPAX adjustables on the Stag, the rears are fine but the fronts are too hard even on the softest setting, I’ll be interested to see how you get on with Gaz if you fit them, I may just change the fronts.
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Triumph Stag Ducati Supersport Shanks’s Pony
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Aug 18, 2019 15:25:47 GMT
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I have the Gaz ASPs all round on my rather light (760kg) 2 door Toledo, along with stock Sprint front springs and stock Toledo rears. I run the fronts around 8 clicks from full hard and the rears 8 clicks from full soft, a soft rear end works best with RWD. This setup works best for my car, whether on potholed country roads or smooth track. Your early 1850 may not have a rear AR bar, later cars had them standard but there is still a long running debate amongst the more performance centred members as to whether it's a good thing or not! I have one (they are cheap and easy to obtain used) and think it marginally improves MY car's handling, others reckon you are better off without one! Personal taste is the watchword here! When polybushing a Dolomite, it's best not to go too far as some if the suspension is a little fragile. people in the know stick to doing the front and rear tie bar bushes, (subframe and axle end respectively) one (rear) end of each rear trailing arm, the lower column bush in the bulkhead and maybe the subframe mounts. If you don't go for solid rack mounts, fit poly here too. Superflex bushes sold by Chris Witor are widely acknowledged to be the best (though not the cheapest) club members get a 10% discount discount from Chris. Leave the rest in stock rubber (or replace with new stock rubber if need be) if you value your spine and hearing!
Solid rack mounts from Jigsaw Racing or Club member Shaun Roche does a more expensive but MUCH better engineered version!
The Trackerjack brake conversion utilises 239mm Golf vented front discs with bespoke brackets to fit 54mm single piston calipers and carriers from Ford Sierra/Escort/Ka. Note, these are the biggest dics that will fit under stock Sprint alloy wheels, if, like me, you are NOT wedded to the Sprint wheels, I have devised a somewhat larger setup using Passat 256mm discs and Puma calipers and carriers, which i'm using on my Sprint auto, still using the same Trackerjack bespoke brackets.
Steve
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Last Edit: Aug 18, 2019 15:44:33 GMT by carledo
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briang
Part of things
Posts: 80
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Aug 18, 2019 21:09:49 GMT
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I've got a Haynes manual for the 1850 & sprint that you can have for a couple of quid and post at cost. Brian.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:05:32 GMT
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I've got a Haynes manual for the 1850 & sprint that you can have for a couple of quid and post at cost. Brian. Thank you for the offer, but I have one in my collection. Cheers.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:13:55 GMT
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I love a nice Dolly - especially an Auto. So relaxed. Sprint wheels just look so right too with a subtle drop. Electronic ignition is a must but I would not use Accuspark - too many horror stories! Use a kit from Rimmer Bros for reliability.
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 859
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Aug 19, 2019 11:43:39 GMT
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I helped a mate restore a very late 1850HL about 7 years ago, relatively easy car to work on and fairly well screwed together by BL standards... I've done the RBRR in it twice (London- JOG- LE- London, 2000 miles in 48 hours- the car has done it three times, I took my 2500 last year). Car completed it with no bother at all every time- easily capable of keeping up with motorway traffic (hours on end at 80mph+ when the owner was having a kip...), comfortable and smooth long distance cruiser and decent enough handling on the twisty bits in Scotland and Wales. Much more frugal than my 6- pot too. I think they are really underrated cars, always in the shadow of the Sprint but definitely worth investing a bit of time and money in.
That one is a manual overdrive car, stock except for air filter, exhaust, electronic ignition and polybushed suspension. It's not even on Sprint wheels!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Let's talk Dolomite...ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Aug 19, 2019 22:23:51 GMT
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I've driven a few Dollies and Toledos. They're not a bad car but here are a few pointers, at least from my perspective.
-The steering as standard is curse word. It's light but it's vague, and my Sprint had new bushes and a new rack and it still wasn't great compared to say a Mini, Midget, TR7 or an MGB; I'd even say my Merc isn't that much worse, and that's saying something; the Tolly I drove was scary, and a mate's Sprint was still vague and was a known club car (HTO 461V I think it was). The solid/poly mounts on the rack get alot of stick but for me they are an essential modification. I'd also consider increasing the castor on the front. -Brakes ; Despite servo assistance they are borderline scary in traffic. Fine if you don't mind holding people up and reaaaly thinking ahead but curse word otherwise. I believe Sierra calipers on vented discs fit and make for a nicer experience. -Bushes these days are curse word if sticking to stock. IMHO Decent quality poly bushes from SuperFlex/SuperPro are the only real way to go ; alot of the problems people have with poly bushes are from the cheaper lower grade/less R&D bushes. It's like comparing a Dacia Sandero to a top-end Mercedes IME. -For the dizzy I'd personally go either with Pertronix or 123 Ignition that is fully progammable. With the latter on other cars I've had better starting due to being able to adjust to timing to start just about anything, and better peformance, due to the ignition timing being electrically controlled and adjustable.
OK, I didn't sugarcoat that. But that's been my experience with 4 of them I have driven. Now for the good points.
-The 1850 is a pleasant drive and on an auto isn't a bad thing at all. -They are pretty comfortable and spacious inside -The dimensions make them very simple and easy to drive and park. -Parts are cheap and the club is helpful.
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Aug 20, 2019 10:19:00 GMT
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I love a nice Dolly - especially an Auto. So relaxed. Sprint wheels just look so right too with a subtle drop. Electronic ignition is a must but I would not use Accuspark - too many horror stories! Use a kit from Rimmer Bros for reliability. I've fitted more than a few Accuspark ignition systems to my own and customer cars and have yet to have a failure. The devil is in the detail! Fit them right and make sure the unit is perfectly grounded on the baseplate (sometimes screws are too long and people leave out the essential grounding paste supplied) and they work fine for a very long time. I've had a lot more problems with Lumenition Magnetronic (on customer cars) than i've ever had with Accuspark which is a quarter of the price!
Personally I only use Rimmers as a last resort. They buy in cheap stuff and sell at a huge markup. AFAIK they are STILL selling the always defective Rolon timing chain tensioner for Dolomite Sprint despite dozens of recorded failures causing many many thousands of pounds worth of engine damage, usually within 3000 miles of installation! The RR rules on profanity prevent me from expressing my true feelings on Rolon products!
And this is an object lesson! The general quality of repro parts (for ALL classics, not just Dolomites) is pretty curse word, especially the electrical stuff, points, condensers, etc sold as Lucas (it isn't) in green boxes and anything that contains rubber bonded to metal, like engine/gearbox mounts, suspension bushes and timing chain tensioner slipper pads!
Steve
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Aug 20, 2019 10:45:08 GMT
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I love a nice Dolly - especially an Auto. So relaxed. Sprint wheels just look so right too with a subtle drop. Electronic ignition is a must but I would not use Accuspark - too many horror stories! Use a kit from Rimmer Bros for reliability. I've fitted more than a few Accuspark ignition systems to my own and customer cars and have yet to have a failure. The devil is in the detail! Fit them right and make sure the unit is perfectly grounded on the baseplate (sometimes screws are too long and people leave out the essential grounding paste supplied) and they work fine for a very long time. I've had a lot more problems with Lumenition Magnetronic (on customer cars) than i've ever had with Accuspark which is a quarter of the price!
Personally I only use Rimmers as a last resort. They buy in cheap stuff and sell at a huge markup. AFAIK they are STILL selling the always defective Rolon timing chain tensioner for Dolomite Sprint despite dozens of recorded failures causing many many thousands of pounds worth of engine damage, usually within 3000 miles of installation! The RR rules on profanity prevent me from expressing my true feelings on Rolon products!
And this is an object lesson! The general quality of repro parts (for ALL classics, not just Dolomites) is pretty curse word, especially the electrical stuff, points, condensers, etc sold as Lucas (it isn't) in green boxes and anything that contains rubber bonded to metal, like engine/gearbox mounts, suspension bushes and timing chain tensioner slipper pads!
Steve
I suppose it varies then because I am no Triumph expert but I do know my Fords - I can only name one case out of at least 30 that hasn't had a problem with their Accuspark units. Those cases being mild road Crossflow & Pinto's. Luck of the drawer maybe because all were properly fitted by competent people.
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Let's talk Dolomite...ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Aug 20, 2019 11:13:44 GMT
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Compared to many outlets Rimmers do sell better stuff, but even they have their hands tied in some parts.
Let’s just say I know a supplier on here who gives tuff to them, and has dealt with many other Triumph outfits.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Let's talk Dolomite...ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Aug 23, 2019 22:30:22 GMT
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I've fitted more than a few Accuspark ignition systems to my own and customer cars and have yet to have a failure. The devil is in the detail! Fit them right and make sure the unit is perfectly grounded on the baseplate (sometimes screws are too long and people leave out the essential grounding paste supplied) and they work fine for a very long time. I've had a lot more problems with Lumenition Magnetronic (on customer cars) than i've ever had with Accuspark which is a quarter of the price!
Personally I only use Rimmers as a last resort. They buy in cheap stuff and sell at a huge markup. AFAIK they are STILL selling the always defective Rolon timing chain tensioner for Dolomite Sprint despite dozens of recorded failures causing many many thousands of pounds worth of engine damage, usually within 3000 miles of installation! The RR rules on profanity prevent me from expressing my true feelings on Rolon products!
And this is an object lesson! The general quality of repro parts (for ALL classics, not just Dolomites) is pretty curse word, especially the electrical stuff, points, condensers, etc sold as Lucas (it isn't) in green boxes and anything that contains rubber bonded to metal, like engine/gearbox mounts, suspension bushes and timing chain tensioner slipper pads! Steve
I suppose it varies then because I am no Triumph expert but I do know my Fords - I can only name one case out of at least 30 that hasn't had a problem with their Accuspark units. Those cases being mild road Crossflow & Pinto's. Luck of the drawer maybe because all were properly fitted by competent people.
Ditto. I've had H&H and Accuspark units bad out of the box, and that is despite the unit being grounded well in the baselate etc. and the paste. As for Lumention units seeing more failures that's not a massive surprise. That's the law of large numbers for you. Many many more Lumenition systems have been fitted over around 30 years and people who have had success with older items will still continue to buy them, so they will almost always outnumber Lumenition. So that's no big surprise there.
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 859
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Aug 24, 2019 11:24:05 GMT
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I'd agree on replacement standard bushes being a bit pants, that applies to pretty much every classic car. Mind you we bought some of the own brand polybushes from Rimmers and they weren't always much cop either, some just straight up didn't fit. Quite a lot of stuff he bought from Rimmers was sub par to be honest. My 2500 is all rebushed with Superpro and Superflex.
Disagree on the handling and only partly agree on the brakes. The former is exactly what you'd expect from a live axled rwd mid size saloon car from the 70's; of course it doesn't handle like a damned mini. There's plenty of people who do track days and hillclimbs etc so they obviously aren't that terrible with a decent spring/ shock set up. Agree that good polybush or solid rack mount bushes are a must though.
Brakes are acceptable for it's intended use with decent pads up front, worth upgrading if you do drive it really hard though, it's something we have thought of doing on the one I drive. They were better than the standard brakes on my 2500, but that's not saying much. Now that has Stag brakes it probably has the edge over the Dolomite.
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Aug 24, 2019 18:08:35 GMT
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Probably off topic slightly but I read once that an AWD Dolomite was feasibly possible since Dollys were FWD and Toledo's were RWD so it's just the [mere ] matter of getting the right suspension fixings / subframes sorted along with drivetrain hacks and you can have an early-days WRX. No idea of how much truth is in it but they're basically the same platform and it always sounded like a lot of fun to me if someone did it with the appropriate tweaks to a sprint engine up front to make it really fly.
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Aug 24, 2019 23:06:25 GMT
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Probably off topic slightly but I read once that an AWD Dolomite was feasibly possible since Dollys were FWD and Toledo's were RWD so it's just the [mere ] matter of getting the right suspension fixings / subframes sorted along with drivetrain hacks and you can have an early-days WRX. No idea of how much truth is in it but they're basically the same platform and it always sounded like a lot of fun to me if someone did it with the appropriate tweaks to a sprint engine up front to make it really fly. Most rear drive shells can be converted to 4wd with 'relative' ease, welding and fabrication for front drive shaft space, transmission tunnel etc, the biggest challenge is finding a suitable transfer box to go with your engine. That's why most of the builds along that line would use an engine to match the donor transmission. Ferguson Formula built some interesting stuff aside from the Jensen's they where known for. 1965 Mustang, mk3 Capri 3.0 and a Triumph Stag where given the treatment. I like the idea of a 3 litre V8 4wd Stag powered Dolomite! Would be interesting I think. Although I have a love/hate relationship with 4wd's. I know they do the job well and are very impressive, but unless there is lots of snow or 700bhp, I get bored of them pretty quickly.
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briang
Part of things
Posts: 80
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Aug 25, 2019 20:21:26 GMT
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