cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 18, 2019 17:19:45 GMT
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Ok... so i've had this Capri a week and used it very occasionally as it need work to drive properly. I was just outside messing with it and did 3 things before this horrible burning smell came over the inside of the car. -Rotated the dimmer switch on the Dashboard. (dash lights are non existent) -Flicked the interior light (which doesn't work) -Messed with the cigarette lighter (which is just a bulb and a terminal/ also doesn't light up either) I then opened the glove box just to see if the light in there was working (it was not). And this burning smell started up. Luckily the dash panel/radio wasnt screwed in so i yanked that out and disconnected the battery. I'm stuck with what to do now as i don't feel i can start it up or anything. I get really paranoid about Car electrics but there was definitely smoke behind the Dash when i pulled the radio out... I don't think it was the radio but it was hard to track down where it was coming from and nothing looked burnt Chris
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Feb 18, 2019 17:37:04 GMT
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Hi, It sounds like it's something is shorting to earth that is unfused so things like of those mentioned int and glove box lights and possibly the cig lighter (depending how it's wired) are all candidates. So before you connect the battery again wire in a bulb between the lead and its post, if it lights up then there's a short to earth so go round disconnecting things until it goes out, that is then your culprit. If it doesn't light up then do what you did before, when it lights, again that's your culprit. The purpose of the bulb is to be a load that won't burn out the wiring and is an easy indication of where the fault is without doing further damage.
Colin
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Last Edit: Feb 18, 2019 17:37:59 GMT by colnerov
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Feb 18, 2019 18:41:11 GMT
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Cig lighter is always a suspect - generally has a big fuse and after time they can cause shorts as there’s a live feed usually mm from a good earth. They’re sometimes only screwed together and a bit of wobble is all that’s needed to make the contacts touch when they shouldn’t.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Feb 18, 2019 18:45:01 GMT
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Just thinking - if you’ve had smoke, then that’s probably insulation off a wire and sods law says it’s within a bit of loom. Hopefully it’s not melted multiple wires together already - in which case it’s new loom time or a lot of time with a collection of new wiring. Here’s hoping it’s only a sub loom that might be affected.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Feb 18, 2019 19:18:21 GMT
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I had something similar recently with a dimmer and non-functioning dash lights. I'd have a look to see there isn't a fault in that circuit causing the resistor to get hot?
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 19, 2019 17:40:13 GMT
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I still havent had chance to do any tests (hopefully thursday) . I took a load of photos behind the dash just to see if i could see anything unusual. The only thing i can see is this bit of tape unravelling on what seems to be the Cig lighter. It looks like this could possibly be a fuse for the Cig lighter and there is a dangling wire too although, looks like its touching plastic. from above. Back of the wiring for the Cig lighter. The front. I'm guessing as mentioned in an earlier post i should put a bulb between the two terminals that are not a bulb already when i connect the battery? The horror that is the dashboard now... The stereo wiring leaves a lot to be desired. I'll be replacing all this with heat srink if i can. I don't think any of the switches work. If it is any of these that are causing the problem would leaving them unplugged be ok? Its had a rear window wiper delete and not sure if that is giving any problems.
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Feb 19, 2019 17:46:57 GMT
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Is the blower motor still working? They tend to smell/chances of smoke when they seize...
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 19, 2019 22:42:09 GMT
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Haven’t had chance to try it yet. Looking at the controls it wasn’t on when it happened (unless I’m reading the controls wrong). Was thinking of taking it out and connecting it straight to 12v and see if it was it ... I don’t know if that sounds mad or not... it’s all new to me. I’m really appreciating how well my 1985 Escort works now haha
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Capri heater motor switch, centre off, one speed up, two speed down or maybe the other way up but definitely centre off. Dimmer resistors are pants, not designed to carry much wattage so if one of the instrument lights is shorted the resistor will burn out, this would also cause all the bulbs to 'not work' as the electricity takes the path of least resistance to earth. To test for 'short to earth' use a continuity tester with it's own battery or a multimeter to avoid further possible damage. First test the obvious, remove battery and test pos to neg making sure all switches are set to off position. If the car is fitted with a clock in the centre console, disconnect it. If there is continuity, if the lamp lights or the meter beeps, then move the fuse box, pull all the fuses and check the input side, then output side, of each fuse holder. (input side will test positive across some of the fuses, output side should not.) Connect one side of the continuity tester to body earth. Check the output side of the fusebox to see if any of them cause the lamp to light. Assuming one of them does cause the lamp to light find out what that fuse provides power to and if it cross connects to any of the other fuse holders on the output side. Mark any plugs you disconnect under the dash so you know where to plug them back in. Tape up any loose connectors or wire ends. Fords used a common basic wiring convention. I think brown with a red tracer is an earth wire that should only carry current when the IGN position is used on the key, brown with a yellow tracer carries current when the ACC position is selected. Thats from practical experience re-wiring kit cars based on old escorts so if someone could verify that it'd be useful. Having had two major re-wires due to 'little mishaps' under the bonnet or dash of my kits please avoid putting the battery back on until you find the fault, it's a lot harder to put out a fire in these old wiring looms than the new thin wall wire looms.
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1988 DUTTON LEGERRA MK1 - SPARES DONOR 1989 DUTTON LEGERRA MK2 - CURRENT PROJECT 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 DUTTON PHAETON S2 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - PROJECT X DUTTON SIERRA S2 - Resting
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,563
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Feb 20, 2019 20:44:48 GMT
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I notice that you have a few wires going through holes with no grommets in it might be worth checking the insulation and fit some grommets to protect the wires in the future. Anything thats not standard, got tape on etc is worth checking and re-doing.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 22, 2019 18:06:44 GMT
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Capri heater motor switch, centre off, one speed up, two speed down or maybe the other way up but definitely centre off. Dimmer resistors are pants, not designed to carry much wattage so if one of the instrument lights is shorted the resistor will burn out, this would also cause all the bulbs to 'not work' as the electricity takes the path of least resistance to earth. To test for 'short to earth' use a continuity tester with it's own battery or a multimeter to avoid further possible damage. First test the obvious, remove battery and test pos to neg making sure all switches are set to off position. If the car is fitted with a clock in the centre console, disconnect it. If there is continuity, if the lamp lights or the meter beeps, then move the fuse box, pull all the fuses and check the input side, then output side, of each fuse holder. (input side will test positive across some of the fuses, output side should not.) Connect one side of the continuity tester to body earth. Check the output side of the fusebox to see if any of them cause the lamp to light. Assuming one of them does cause the lamp to light find out what that fuse provides power to and if it cross connects to any of the other fuse holders on the output side. Mark any plugs you disconnect under the dash so you know where to plug them back in. Tape up any loose connectors or wire ends. Fords used a common basic wiring convention. I think brown with a red tracer is an earth wire that should only carry current when the IGN position is used on the key, brown with a yellow tracer carries current when the ACC position is selected. Thats from practical experience re-wiring kit cars based on old escorts so if someone could verify that it'd be useful. Having had two major re-wires due to 'little mishaps' under the bonnet or dash of my kits please avoid putting the battery back on until you find the fault, it's a lot harder to put out a fire in these old wiring looms than the new thin wall wire looms. I had a quick go at this while i was working on the steering rack (i forgot about disconnecting the interior clock though) . I didn't get any "beeps" from my multi meter when touching the battery terminals and the fuse terminals (fuses removed). I tested both sides of the terminals to the front wing. I'll try this all again next week when i have time and energy. I'm starting wonder if it was the heater fan with the heater switch being in the down position. If i was to take this out, could i connect the unit or just the motor to a 12v score or would it be stepped down from 12v in the car? I thought for piece of mind this might be the easiest process of elimination. I noticed another crude electrical tape up today under the bonnet... what i'm guessing is a electronic ignition module seems to have a gaffa taped wire loose. Not sure if it is something left over from a conversion (looks like a ford part) but will need to go scouting for this kind of stuff. Cant remember if i mentioned before but there are two extra terminals attached to the positive side of the battery... i cant see any extras on the car though.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:46:41 GMT
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The heater switches can get stuck (welded) with closed contacts, disconnect the multiplug from the back of the switch if in doubt. No conspicuous beeping is a good thing. Also disconnect and run a resistance test on the dimmer, should be near 0 ohms full clockwise and increase in resistance as it's turned anti clock. Should be a smooth (ish) increase in resistance as you do so although not sure what 'max' is as I binned mine (broken shaft). Output to sidelights/instruments should be a light grey wire with a yellow tracer if my memory serves.
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1988 DUTTON LEGERRA MK1 - SPARES DONOR 1989 DUTTON LEGERRA MK2 - CURRENT PROJECT 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 DUTTON PHAETON S2 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - PROJECT X DUTTON SIERRA S2 - Resting
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 22, 2019 21:17:48 GMT
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The heater switches can get stuck (welded) with closed contacts, disconnect the multiplug from the back of the switch if in doubt. No conspicuous beeping is a good thing. Also disconnect and run a resistance test on the dimmer, should be near 0 ohms full clockwise and increase in resistance as it's turned anti clock. Should be a smooth (ish) increase in resistance as you do so although not sure what 'max' is as I binned mine (broken shaft). Output to sidelights/instruments should be a light grey wire with a yellow tracer if my memory serves. Cheers this is all great advice as electricity is a dark art to me. Maybe i'll just unplug the heater switch multi plug even if seems ok for now. Will check the dimmer control and i'm going to add something to the cig lighter to take up the load. Is the cig lighter the only thing that will miss having a load wired up to it? From what i've seen on this wiring diagram it looks like the Glovebox light, heater, cig lighter, dashboard dials/dimmer are all on this one fuse!! i'm assuming this is the same for my Car and it looks like non of these things work properly which is a bit worrying. The fuses them selfs seem fine as i checked them today and cleaned up the contacts (no fuse cover box )
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 28, 2019 18:55:16 GMT
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Just an update on this. I think it was the heater. I unplugged the dash switch and after looking for loose wires etc. connected it back up. No smell or smoke. For some reason the back drivers light doesnt work and for a while one of the headlights wouldn't come on but then found life again. I think I'll have to keep my eye on this one. I bought a cut off switch off amazon but can't get it to fit the terminal. Anyone extended the lead safely with one of these? don't want a 12v terminal flopping around and it looks a pain to encase.
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Feb 28, 2019 20:08:42 GMT
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the heater motor has probably seized - its inside the black plastic box under the dash/above the transmission tunnel. You can get replacements - trying to open up the heater box without snapping plastic clips is the most difficult thing. Mine is held together with quite a lot of cable tie!
I had issues with my headlights when I first got my capri and loads of weird wiring which I ended up stripping out. There is another silver/grey fuse box on the other side of the engine back which has the fuses for the lights - worth giving those a cleanup as well...
I've also got one of those quick disconnect things on my battery, although it fits straight on the terminal. Think it was only a couple of quid off eBay...and no chopping needed.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Feb 28, 2019 21:06:17 GMT
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the heater motor has probably seized - its inside the black plastic box under the dash/above the transmission tunnel. You can get replacements - trying to open up the heater box without snapping plastic clips is the most difficult thing. Mine is held together with quite a lot of cable tie! I had issues with my headlights when I first got my capri and loads of weird wiring which I ended up stripping out. There is another silver/grey fuse box on the other side of the engine back which has the fuses for the lights - worth giving those a cleanup as well... I've also got one of those quick disconnect things on my battery, although it fits straight on the terminal. Think it was only a couple of quid off eBay...and no chopping needed. I didnt know there was a second fuse box. i think i found a picture online, under the steering column ? I wonder if thats why the interior light doesn't work too... I've not noticed anything else but will investigate.
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Feb 28, 2019 21:22:05 GMT
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Not a best picture - but you see the grey box on the passenger side bulkhead? That had the headlight fuses:
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Feb 28, 2019 21:36:11 GMT
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Standard early Capri fusebox. Old Continental fuses not the best but easy enough to swap with a modern fusebox if you are working with dead wires and doing it one circuit at a time. Fusebox under the dash looks to be from a newer model, not seen one in a Capri but then me and Capri's don't cross paths much.
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2019 21:52:05 GMT by Rebuilda
1988 DUTTON LEGERRA MK1 - SPARES DONOR 1989 DUTTON LEGERRA MK2 - CURRENT PROJECT 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 1990 DUTTON LEGERRA ZS MK2 DUTTON PHAETON S2 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - Resting DUTTON PHAETON S4 - PROJECT X DUTTON SIERRA S2 - Resting
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