sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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The problem is people are only looking at the end product with EVs and not taking into account the whole manufacturing process where a lot of the products/minerals etc come from very poor, very dirty parts of the world, we need to be cleaning the whole world not just bits of it!! This also accounts for other items like clothes, food, mobile phones etc, no one seems to think of the whole process just the end product and price! Again the maths works out on production as well, producing an ICE car is no better really so it makes no odds. Electric cars are cleaner.
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incase not already mentioned.. it takes more electricity to refine crude into petrol than it does to drive a car the same distance on that electricity so the piston car is dirtier before you even take into account the transportation and burning of the fuel.
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69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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oilit
Part of things
Posts: 233
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Dec 12, 2018 10:19:29 GMT
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So in a few weeks when we get 2 inches of snow and the m25 / m11 grind to a holt and your stuck over night on the motorway with your petrol engine running to keep warm your car runs out of petrol the man in the car next to you has a can and with good will lets you top up when the road clears and you make it to a petrol station and fill up continue on your journey home 12 hours late...or your in your electric car I suppose it has an electric heater to keep warm but when the batteries go flat you cant borrow from a kindly car next to you, you cant get your own can out the boot and walk to the garage you will have to wait to be towed and when you do get recovered you then have to sit there still cold for another 8 (?)hours to charge up also you cant listen to the radio for travel / weather updates as that reduces your battery even quicker … started going on a bit now I know but what if when you get to the charging point there are 3 cars in front its bad enough at the fuel pumps when you have to wait 7 minutes imagine waiting for 3 electric cars to charge before its your go.. Just don't get me started on them self driving or driverless cars what is the point why do we need them get a train or a bus or a taxi why do I want to have to be the responsible adult for a car i'm not driving but have to be aware at all times in case I have to take control at some point you cant sleep or be drunk you may as well drive yourself. I know people much cleverer than me (not hard) are working on these and many more complex problems but when they sort them out they must be ready to explain the reason I need one very slowly as it may take some time to sink in. But it's not quite like that in reality... I have an EV - Leaf - which has a std battery to run lights and ancillaries like heated seats, it has an air sourced heat pump as a heater - which helps reduce battery charge loss when in use. The ancillary battery has a small solar panel that helps keep it trickle charged. In 3 years and 36k miles which involves living in the country and driving into London or down to Devon, I can think of maybe one or two scenarios when i have had to wait for a charger - and if they have both turned up a minute before you that would be really unlucky - those times I had to wait it was probably 10 mins. By the time you go and have a comfort break and a coffee you'd normally be back at 80% It's not perfect - but neither is hydrogen - purchase price, filling stations in uk = 3 I think, and I think we all have petrol in our veins otherwise we wouldn't be on this site, but the truth is electrification is probably here to stay and I expect you will see power companies having to offer tariffs to allow car charging costs to be differentiated from conventional power usage costs - otherwise you will end up with more yellow jacket protests.
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tdk
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Dec 12, 2018 18:52:18 GMT
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Norway has given mental concessions and tax breaks to EVs, though, which cannot be compared with deals on offer in the UK. Plus, you guys are so rich you can afford to be green (if that makes sense).
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,386
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Dec 12, 2018 19:11:10 GMT
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Norway has given mental concessions and tax breaks to EVs, though, which cannot be compared with deals on offer in the UK. Plus, you guys are so rich you can afford to be green (if that makes sense). Why couldn't EVs be VAT free in the UK if the UK government really wanted to be green? I would guess that EVs would be a lot more popular if they were 20% cheaper 😉
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Current 1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype 2004 TVR T350C 2017 BMW 340i
Previous BMW 325d E91LCI - sold Alfa Romeo GTV - sold Citroen AX GT - at the breakers Ford Puma 1.7 - sold Volvo V50 2.0d - sold MGB GT - wrecked by fire MG ZT 1.8T - sold VW E-golf Electric - sold Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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Dec 12, 2018 19:24:25 GMT
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benzine
Part of things
Posts: 333
Club RR Member Number: 87
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Dec 12, 2018 20:12:31 GMT
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I'm currently building an electric 'reverse trike' using a Vectrix VX-1 drivetrain & motor controller with Leaf batteries. Styling wise I'm going for an early 1930s look. I likes electric vehicles and I like IC vehicles. Oh, and steam too. S'all good, man.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,714
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Dec 12, 2018 22:12:54 GMT
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Norway has given mental concessions and tax breaks to EVs, though, which cannot be compared with deals on offer in the UK. Plus, you guys are so rich you can afford to be green (if that makes sense). Why couldn't EVs be VAT free in the UK if the UK government really wanted to be green? I would guess that EVs would be a lot more popular if they were 20% cheaper 😉 The problem is our government get a ridiculous amount of revenue from motorised vehicles. Around 40% of the cost of fuel is tax, then you pay a ‘road fund licence’ on top of that, that is anywhere between £0–600 quid a year. Then you get charged a insurance premium tax when you buy your compulsory insurance policy. They collect a fee from the garage when your vehicle is given it’s compulsory MOT roadworthiness test each year (varies as a percentage based on what the garage charge as their is no set pricing, but I think it’s around £30 per test). When you buy a new car you pay various environmental surcharges, taxes plus vat. As a heavily capitalist society, government revenue stream is based mostly on getting consumers to spend So taxes can be collected. If EVs has the takeup levels the environmentalists want, and EVs were make vat exempt, our economy would fall apart overnight.
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Last Edit: Dec 12, 2018 22:14:02 GMT by Dez
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Norway has given mental concessions and tax breaks to EVs, though, which cannot be compared with deals on offer in the UK. Plus, you guys are so rich you can afford to be green (if that makes sense). Why couldn't EVs be VAT free in the UK if the UK government really wanted to be green? I would guess that EVs would be a lot more popular if they were 20% cheaper 😉 You've answered your own question. The government don't want us to be green, they just want to use climate change to beat us with more taxes while telling us its for our own good.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Dec 13, 2018 11:07:36 GMT
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If the only criteria is owning a retro/classic clone that can go as fast as f**k then, yes, it may well change minds. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, it's about much more than how fast you can go. Yep that car looks the business but it wont sound like the business, engine sound is rather intrinsic to our hobby. I'm sure train spotters love old steam trains and Inter City 125s as a whole but would they be that impressed by an electric Flying Scotsman? That Mustang has the looks and the go without the soul. They should leave electric to the moderns and, for christ sakes, stop using classic designs to hawk it all with and come up with new fresh designs for the World we live in now.
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Dec 13, 2018 11:38:53 GMT
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They should leave electric to the moderns and, for christ sakes, stop using classic designs to hawk it all with and come up with new fresh designs for the World we live in now. And there lies the problem for me, and I'm sure many other "car people". What's on offer now, in my opinion, looks rubbish. The majority of which like the Leaf, Zoe, Prius et al don't appeal to me because of their looks. So far only the Tesla model S is the only one I think that looks ok. VW, I think are planning some new retro looking EVs based on the Meyers Manx buggy and a microbus, plus a new design which I can't remember the name of, or if it's going to look ok. So, as things are now, design wise, I'm happy for people to use classic designs.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Dec 13, 2018 13:24:14 GMT
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They should leave electric to the moderns and, for christ sakes, stop using classic designs to hawk it all with and come up with new fresh designs for the World we live in now. And there lies the problem for me, and I'm sure many other "car people". What's on offer now, in my opinion, looks rubbish. The majority of which like the Leaf, Zoe, Prius et al don't appeal to me because of their looks. So far only the Tesla model S is the only one I think that looks ok. VW, I think are planning some new retro looking EVs based on the Meyers Manx buggy and a microbus, plus a new design which I can't remember the name of, or if it's going to look ok. So, as things are now, design wise, I'm happy for people to use classic designs. I do get where you are coming from. For me, my modern is just a modern, I buy them, drive them and they do all the daily and normal stuff and they do them well tbf. The fact that, in the future, the choice will be electric or hybrid won't matter to me at all, so long as they continue to do what I want them to do. If somebody brings out an electric Corvette or series 2 landy it really is not going to tick my boxes as I would rather enjoy the real things. It's like reproduction furniture, looks the part, is the part but will never evoke the same feeling as the original. I'm fine with leccy cars but I will get my motoring kicks with the real things and let the leccy stuff do my daily work!
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