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So in a few weeks when we get 2 inches of snow and the m25 / m11 grind to a holt and your stuck over night on the motorway with your petrol engine running to keep warm your car runs out of petrol the man in the car next to you has a can and with good will lets you top up when the road clears and you make it to a petrol station and fill up continue on your journey home 12 hours late...or your in your electric car I suppose it has an electric heater to keep warm but when the batteries go flat you cant borrow from a kindly car next to you, you cant get your own can out the boot and walk to the garage you will have to wait to be towed and when you do get recovered you then have to sit there still cold for another 8 (?)hours to charge up also you cant listen to the radio for travel / weather updates as that reduces your battery even quicker … started going on a bit now I know but what if when you get to the charging point there are 3 cars in front its bad enough at the fuel pumps when you have to wait 7 minutes imagine waiting for 3 electric cars to charge before its your go.. Just don't get me started on them self driving or driverless cars what is the point why do we need them get a train or a bus or a taxi why do I want to have to be the responsible adult for a car i'm not driving but have to be aware at all times in case I have to take control at some point you cant sleep or be drunk you may as well drive yourself. I know people much cleverer than me (not hard) are working on these and many more complex problems but when they sort them out they must be ready to explain the reason I need one very slowly as it may take some time to sink in.
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I’m sure similar things were said when the first cars came around. Like where are you going to get fuel, the roads are dirt tracks etc etc. I’ll stick to my horse & cart & so on, but things move on. It won’t happen over night, but it WILL happen
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,386
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It amuses me to see the range anxiety of many in this thread. Especially from those who has never owned or even driven an electric car. We had the exact same situation here in Norway 3-4 years ago, but today there are only a handful die hards that still argue about lack of range and the 'load' charging EVs has on the electric grid. My house consumes 12.000kW a year. My E-golf used 1.800Kw a year. I charged the car mostly at home and sometimes at work, no where else. All the time in a 16amp Schüco socket with the car set at 10amp charging. With 10amp charging over night for 8 ours I charged approx. 18kW which gave me a daily range of 55-60 miles, which could have been stretched to 70-75 miles if I had driven like a granny. That would be more than enough for most people.
I will be buying an EV again as soon as I can afford one again. Using an EV as my daily will help keep my fossil fuel burning classic car legal to use for longer as the total amount of pollution from my driving will be less.
Porsche is releasing its Taycan in 2019-2020 with an on-board charger capable of charging its 95kWH battery with 350kW making the time to get to 80% only 15 minutes. Most other EVs have fast charge options with a range of 100-150kW.
My local hospital has even looked into signing agreements with EV owners to be able to get them in and hooked up the the hospital to us as back up power in emergencies, but getting the power out of the EVs has not been solved yet iirc.
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Current 1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype 2004 TVR T350C 2017 BMW 340i
Previous BMW 325d E91LCI - sold Alfa Romeo GTV - sold Citroen AX GT - at the breakers Ford Puma 1.7 - sold Volvo V50 2.0d - sold MGB GT - wrecked by fire MG ZT 1.8T - sold VW E-golf Electric - sold Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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For sure I am a stuck in the old ways kind of bloke I just don't see the precious rare minerals in batteries a massive step forward and the saviour of the environment they are being sold as, surely the most green way would be to stop making any new vehicles at all and make people look after the one's they already own, I'm sure I remember hearing the Model T was the great success it was is down to the fact ( not solely) it had the same chassis wheel width as the common horse and carriage so could use most road / tracks that all ready existed without getting stuck which other cars at the time still struggled with, A small little factor that made a massive difference I think we are still looking for this little nugget to make the next step but are being told electric cars is it like we were told buy diesel get free road tax.
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For sure I am a stuck in the old ways kind of bloke I just don't see the precious rare minerals in batteries a massive step forward and the saviour of the environment they are being sold as, surely the most green way would be to stop making any new vehicles at all and make people look after the one's they already own, I'm sure I remember hearing the Model T was the great success it was is down to the fact ( not solely) it had the same chassis wheel width as the common horse and carriage so could use most road / tracks that all ready existed without getting stuck which other cars at the time still struggled with, A small little factor that made a massive difference I think we are still looking for this little nugget to make the next step but are being told electric cars is it like we were told buy diesel get free road tax. Totally agree and if you believe we are told to buy electric cars to cut down on emmissions you are deluded, just another money making scam before the next one. What we should be focused on is man destroying the planet in in other ways before the planet becomes inhabital due to climate change
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kenb
Part of things
Posts: 604
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Yup everyone buy electric cars, so we can put more aeroplanes in the sky and run the diesel trains for a bit longer without increasing current pollution levels. Meanwhile Poland will keep on burning fossil fuels in their power stations for the next 30/40 years and further undo what we have done. I mean I totally get what we are all trying to do here, but somehow I also see the futility of it all really. Because unless we all change its game over. I just cannot see the rest of the world (you know the countries I mean) doing enough in time before its too late, even if we're leading by example.
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 348
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So in a few weeks when we get 2 inches of snow and the m25 / m11 grind to a holt and your stuck over night on the motorway with your petrol engine running to keep warm your car runs out of petrol the man in the car next to you has a can and with good will lets you top up when the road clears and you make it to a petrol station and fill up continue on your journey home 12 hours late...or your in your electric car I suppose it has an electric heater to keep warm but when the batteries go flat you cant borrow from a kindly car next to you, you cant get your own can out the boot and walk to the garage you will have to wait to be towed and when you do get recovered you then have to sit there still cold for another 8 (?)hours to charge up also you cant listen to the radio for travel / weather updates as that reduces your battery even quicker … started going on a bit now I know but what if when you get to the charging point there are 3 cars in front its bad enough at the fuel pumps when you have to wait 7 minutes imagine waiting for 3 electric cars to charge before its your go.. Just don't get me started on them self driving or driverless cars what is the point why do we need them get a train or a bus or a taxi why do I want to have to be the responsible adult for a car i'm not driving but have to be aware at all times in case I have to take control at some point you cant sleep or be drunk you may as well drive yourself. I know people much cleverer than me (not hard) are working on these and many more complex problems but when they sort them out they must be ready to explain the reason I need one very slowly as it may take some time to sink in. Yeah...right. I could end up writing a whole essay countering this sort of clap-trap but it's not worth the effort. I think you need to drive an EV before making everyone's mind up for them.
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Last Edit: Dec 4, 2018 15:19:20 GMT by kabman
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YAWN
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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Clap trap how very dare you, also i am incapable of making any one else's mind up for them and why would driving an electric vehicle make any difference to my comments.
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sweep
Part of things
Posts: 411
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If only an electric motor sounded like a lazy V8, or a straight four sucking on twin 40's, or a quad cam howl, or anything to stir the soul. In fact, anything. TBH I’m not an EV fan, but a mate of mine has an i8 BM. He took me a spin in it, mental quick, but the noise..... epic. I sat there dumbstruck by the power & then eventually said, wow that sounds awesome. Not real he says, comes through the speakers in the car. Apparently same deal outside for the onlookers & you can turn it up/down/off. Yes, I know, I know, it’s not the same you say (& I agree) but it did make me think. You really would not have known Quite the opposite for me, a friend often has to move his bosses cars around and recently bought one of the new Roadsters, for something that costs over £125k I was pretty disappointed, yes it drives well and rides the bends nicely but they are by no means fast!
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TBH I’m not an EV fan, but a mate of mine has an i8 BM. He took me a spin in it, mental quick, but the noise..... epic. I sat there dumbstruck by the power & then eventually said, wow that sounds awesome. Not real he says, comes through the speakers in the car. Apparently same deal outside for the onlookers & you can turn it up/down/off. Yes, I know, I know, it’s not the same you say (& I agree) but it did make me think. You really would not have known Quite the opposite for me, a friend often has to move his bosses cars around and recently bought one of the new Roadsters, for something that costs over £125k I was pretty disappointed, yes it drives well and rides the bends nicely but they are by no means fast! Ok then 0 to 60 in just over 4 secs is by no means fast then? I’ll just leave it there
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sweep
Part of things
Posts: 411
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Quite the opposite for me, a friend often has to move his bosses cars around and recently bought one of the new Roadsters, for something that costs over £125k I was pretty disappointed, yes it drives well and rides the bends nicely but they are by no means fast! Ok then 0 to 60 in just over 4 secs is by no means fast then? I’ll just leave it there We can throw numbers around all day, but they're certainly not "mentally quick".
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Ok then 0 to 60 in just over 4 secs is by no means fast then? I’ll just leave it there We can throw numbers around all day, but they're certainly not "mentally quick". Riiight
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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For sure I am a stuck in the old ways kind of bloke I just don't see the precious rare minerals in batteries a massive step forward and the saviour of the environment they are being sold as, surely the most green way would be to stop making any new vehicles at all and make people look after the one's they already own, I'm sure I remember hearing the Model T was the great success it was is down to the fact ( not solely) it had the same chassis wheel width as the common horse and carriage so could use most road / tracks that all ready existed without getting stuck which other cars at the time still struggled with, A small little factor that made a massive difference I think we are still looking for this little nugget to make the next step but are being told electric cars is it like we were told buy diesel get free road tax. For sure I am a stuck in the old ways kind of bloke I just don't see the precious rare minerals in batteries a massive step forward and the saviour of the environment they are being sold as, surely the most green way would be to stop making any new vehicles at all and make people look after the one's they already own, I'm sure I remember hearing the Model T was the great success it was is down to the fact ( not solely) it had the same chassis wheel width as the common horse and carriage so could use most road / tracks that all ready existed without getting stuck which other cars at the time still struggled with, A small little factor that made a massive difference I think we are still looking for this little nugget to make the next step but are being told electric cars is it like we were told buy diesel get free road tax. Totally agree and if you believe we are told to buy electric cars to cut down on emmissions you are deluded, just another money making scam before the next one. What we should be focused on is man destroying the planet in in other ways before the planet becomes inhabital due to climate change Yup everyone buy electric cars, so we can put more aeroplanes in the sky and run the diesel trains for a bit longer without increasing current pollution levels. Meanwhile Poland will keep on burning fossil fuels in their power stations for the next 30/40 years and further undo what we have done. I mean I totally get what we are all trying to do here, but somehow I also see the futility of it all really. Because unless we all change its game over. I just cannot see the rest of the world (you know the countries I mean) doing enough in time before its too late, even if we're leading by example. I would honestly ask you all to look into the actual maths of the situation and not Jeremy Clarkson-esque vitriolic pub talk. EVs ARE cleaner and DO cut down on emissions, there isnt a question about it. The only factor is how much renewable energy the country its used in produces affects how long it takes. Trust me I'm not eco warrior, I own and run a rotary that does 12mpg on a good day, I boot it just to listen it. I love the ICE as much as anyone else on this forum but please don't spread false rumours. Here is a really good jumping off point to explain it:
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Last Edit: Dec 6, 2018 17:19:10 GMT by sb
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Corr there is a lot of curse word being spouted in here...
I love the idea of a fully electric car, maximum torque from standstill etc.
You know one of the biggest issues is a question of infrastructure and investment therein. Here we have a huge network of (renewable powered) fast charging points on most of the major highways. (https://fastned.nl/en/). If the UK was willing to put that kind of investment in place, this would be a different discussion. The campus I work on has been installing around 20 charging points per car park, and there is 9 car parks dotted around. They are already reaching the point of being at capacity and looking to change more ICE parking for electric only parking.
Sure there is a time cost, to charge the biggest of the Tesla model S, with a 100 kWh battery to 80% takes around 30 minutes from one of the fast chargers, that's good for over 200 miles of driving. To get to the full 300+ mile range takes an hour or so. Very few people have a need for more than 200 miles of driving per day.
A lot of the taxis here are switching over to Tesla cars, especially out of places like Schiphol airport.
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It's all academic really as most of us will be dead or in a home for the bewildered before an efficient EV becomes eligible for RetroRides!
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74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,350
Club RR Member Number: 84
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It's all academic really as most of us will be dead or in a home for the bewildered before an efficient EV becomes eligible for RetroRides! Not so, have the first google hit of a lot of companies offering this sort of stuff. If I had the cash I would be driving one already www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/
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The problem is people are only looking at the end product with EVs and not taking into account the whole manufacturing process where a lot of the products/minerals etc come from very poor, very dirty parts of the world, we need to be cleaning the whole world not just bits of it!!
This also accounts for other items like clothes, food, mobile phones etc, no one seems to think of the whole process just the end product and price!
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ok so picking on the worst case I think an electric car will be greener after 5 years of running than the average petrol that's per car so still not really greener still massively bad for the environment when you think about the amount of cars we are talking about, yes I agree after a few years it will be better but for those first years still bad so not really a cure, the same as smoking low tar cigarette's instead of higher tar one's someone once said its like jumping out of a 10th story window instead of the 12th. I still think not the massive step forward we need but Rome wasn't built in a day so maybe little steps and as they are closing the power stations that churn out as much pollution in a day as all the uk cars in a year i'm sure we are really helping and the private jets are being grounded and MP's royals and presidents and the super wealthy are all plane sharing and diesel tanks for the army are being mothballed and replaced with electric we are well on the way to saving the planet one electric car at a time. I don't know the answer kabman does he just cant be bothered to write it ( light hearted joke not an attack )I would still rather run out of petrol than then have my electric car battery go flat.
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It's all academic really as most of us will be dead or in a home for the bewildered before an efficient EV becomes eligible for RetroRides! Not so, have the first google hit of a lot of companies offering this sort of stuff. If I had the cash I would be driving one already www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/Point taken, but hardly mainstream, which is what this thread seems to be about. They are taking existing classic cars and converting them, not producing new vehicles. Therefore my 20yr rule would still apply to the current and future EV'S. A Tesla is great also, but not RetroRides great,(yet) whereas the Electric Beetle is, but it's not a modern production car, but more a kit/conversion. I would have the Beetle but it's not a vehicle that will turn up on a car supermarket dealership for the masses is it?
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Last Edit: Dec 7, 2018 12:45:04 GMT by accord83
74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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