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Oct 20, 2018 22:14:48 GMT
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Hi having got rid of the dayvan I've realised I need a Landy or Rangey to tow car on trailer.
I've had a couple of series 2a's both standard petrols. Tho last one had 90 front and arches with wellers.
I'm wondering if I'd be able to manage with the series on parabolic springs or would be better going for the 90/110 on coils?
Or take the more scary route of finding an inexpensive RR Classic?
I'm daily`ing a w210 V8 estate but thats only rated to 1.8 tonnes and think at ride height and having AMG kit and wheels would be no go anyway. Has no towbar anyhow.
I'd consider px`in or swapping my Amazon estate or Mk1 face-lift Carlton/Monza hybrid estate or both for a good example.
What's the general consensus?
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"To Big block or not to Big block?" Thats the question!
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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For towing surely the 110 would be the best bet. It's the longest, has a 3500kg towing rating and has the better brakes unlike the older drum braked series (which are great if set up properly until they get hot). Next the Range Rover, a well proven tow vehicle and more comfortable.
I'd ignore the others for towing in the modern world. The series have a towing rating of 2000kg on overrun brakes and are pretty lightweight compared to the later coilsprung variants and lack the better brakes and stronger engines.
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Oct 21, 2018 10:15:04 GMT
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For towing I think you'd be better off with something with a long wheelbase, so either the 110, Or the Range Rover. Personally I'd go for the Range Rover, just for the less agricultural ride.
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Oct 21, 2018 12:29:01 GMT
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Series III are a nice motor in good condition, but heavy towing over long distances with the original engines gets old pretty quickly.
A Tdi era or newer 90/110 are more refined and have the power for towing,but finding a nice one for sensible money these days isn't easy. You'll pay £5-6k for something that you would have gotten for £2k ten years ago, and the cheap ones are usually cheap for a reason.
Range Rovers are nice cars, but can and do rot with some intensity. Good ones are however appreciating, and if looked after are unlikely to lose money. P38's are better again, but anything below the £3k mark is likely (Although not guarunteed) to come with a list of previous owners issues. Half decent L322's are becoming affordable now, with decent early V8's available in the £3-5k bracket. They are a lot more complicated than earlier models though.
Disco 1's are an excellent all round car, suffer the same rot issues as Classic Range Rovers, and early ones also starting to go up in value, whilst the 300 Tdi type are about as cheap as they're going to get at the moment, and perhaps the perfect balance of comfort, simplicity and traditional Land Rover mechanicals.
Discovery 2's are like the 300's, but more refined, a bit more internal space and just generally improved over the D1. They have known rot issues around the back end of the chassis, but it's well documented, and decent repair sections are now available. I picked up an early facelift Td5 recently, and whilst it needed a few days worth of welding on the back end (along with a couple of anti roll bar links and some bulbs) it's a lot of -stunningly good- car for a total spend of £480 including the MOT fee.
It was a bargain, but worth noting that as you can buy a new galvanised chassis for around £2,800, so if you can pick up a well specced and mechanically healthy car with a rotten chassis for £600 or so, it's possible to have a top spec D2 with a new chassis, suspension etc for £5-6k if you can do the swop yourself, maybe £7-8k if you're paying for it.
D3 are nice cars, but can snap cranks, and good ones are still nearer £10k.
As a devout Defender owner, I'd have to put my backing behind a P38 or D2.
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Oct 21, 2018 13:39:57 GMT
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I run a P38 4 litre V8 - heavy on fuel but I don't use it every day - maybe once or twice a month for towing other than that it tends be all local runs of a few miles round trip - it's low mileage & looked after - with the air suspension it is dream of a tow vehicle - it's like driving a very comfortable hover sofa! Thread is lacking a pic so here you go
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Oct 21, 2018 13:44:52 GMT
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I agree with daslandroverman, a tidy Disco 2 would be a great all-rounder. Some years ago I looked into getting a Series Landy for towing, and I concluded that with the standard engines it just wouldn't be much fun. I tow with my 80s Nissan Patrol, which is pretty underpowered with 120bhp but just about gets the job done. Any less oomph than that would be pretty awful I reckon, especially when towing some weighty car and trailer uphill.
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Oct 21, 2018 13:56:46 GMT
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Thanks for suggestions so far.
I should have given more detail. I wouldn't be going long haul just local tracks.
Hadn't done homework on series didn't realise only 2 ton cap.
I've driven a P38 50th Anniversary from Anglesey to Stoke and it was lovely tho I wasn't towing. Slightly ugly but nice inside.
Am I right in thinking softdash RR classic isn't as well made/more troublesome than earlier model? Guessing the LSE is going to be more hassle than it's worth? Does the Brookland body kit make them rot more than regular version.
Discovery is undoubtedly capable but was advised to keep away from Disco 1 due to rust. They just don't get my juices going tbh!
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"To Big block or not to Big block?" Thats the question!
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Oct 21, 2018 20:58:35 GMT
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Sort dash RRC are basically 300 Tdi Discoverys which feel a bit nicer inside. The body kit doesn't make them any more or less prone to rot, but is very expensive to replace anything that may end up damaged.
The LSE isn't much more technically complicated than similar age Autobiography (for the air suspension) or Lower spec RRC or Discovery. Middle row doors and glass for the LSE are strong money these days, whilst some parts of the air suspension setups are also expensive if you can find them at all, however it is possible to convert them to standard coil springs.
If you're avoiding a D1 due to rust then you should probably be avoiding RRC's for similar reasons.
A P38 on air is an excellent car, and with the right wheel/colour combination are good looking motors. A good one is worth having.
If you're towing locally and rough tracks then I can imagine you'll not be trying to drag 3.5 tonnes along behind you, which makes the 2 tonne limit of a Series motor a bit less of a consideration, and if you need to tow 3.5 tonnes in an off road environment then I'd suggest that a Land Rover is perhaps not the best option to pull the sort of trailer you'd need for the job.
Also worth noting you shouldn't be fooled by all the 'off road' prepared vehicles with massive tyres, lift kits etc which are marketed as improvements.
It's surprising how capable a near standard vehicle is with some decent Mud or All Terrain tyres, without the altered driving dynamics which befall messing with the suspension in the name of 'improvement'.
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Oct 21, 2018 23:29:02 GMT
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I run a P38 4 litre V8 - heavy on fuel but I don't use it every day - maybe once or twice a month for towing other than that it tends be all local runs of a few miles round trip - it's low mileage & looked after - with the air suspension it is dream of a tow vehicle - it's like driving a very comfortable hover sofa! Thread is lacking a pic so here you go The P38 does look good in metallic paint! Is the 4 litre the one or is the 4.4 as good? I'm led to believe they aren't keen on lpg or is factory version a different beast? Daslandroverman I fully agree on the off road mods I'm not going green laning! George on SOUP kinda frightened me off the RR classic they certainly can rot! When I said tracks I meant racetracks sry I was vague. I'm thinking the Classic or 110 would be a sound investment where the P38 would probably do admirably for less cash!
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"To Big block or not to Big block?" Thats the question!
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jonk
Part of things
Posts: 154
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Oct 22, 2018 18:51:21 GMT
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I do say this every time a p38 thread comes up but I have some first hand experience of my uncle’s p38 lpg rangerovers. One did 400,000 miles towing heavy trailers delivering oak across the uk and France, the other wasn’t far behind on mileage when an accident meant it was replaced by a newer model tdv8. He swears by them and the air suspension makes them great tow cars. They did obviously have their fair share of maintenance in that time.
I didn’t drive them loaded but as a passenger they felt basically the same to be in whether towing or not. The newer tdv8 is even nicer. Not sure how much the are compared to a 110?
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As much as I love my 110, I couldn't compare it to a P38 or L322 Rangie, asides their having come from the same factory and the P38 having a similar driveline layout. One is luxury car, the other -even in high spec trim- is still a rather antiquated tin box design. It is part of the charm of a Defender, but it's certainly not for everyone.
Probably best to have a drive of some decent examples of what you're considering (with the engine you want) and base your decision around that.
The Rover V8 is a decent engine, and runs well on gas, however they don't appreciate a lack of servicing, or poorly setup/installed gas systems. Porous block/liner issues are also well documented with them, with the 4.6 litre cars a bit more prone, although as even the newest P38 is 16 years old (14 for a V8 D2) most if not all will have had some.sort of rectifying work carried out by now.
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Oct 23, 2018 10:26:22 GMT
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The problem with series 3 and 90/110 is that people rate the IDEA of them highly. There's an entire sub culture in UK built round it. I would definitely rate the opinion of people who drive them day in day out, but recommend a discovery when asked
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Oct 23, 2018 21:17:54 GMT
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Absoloutely love my P38 and there is good technical help out there when required. Parts prices are very good too. They can look dated in the common green and blue colours but get a bolder more contrasting colour such as red or silver and they look much better. The light guards on mine have helped it age well too styling wise. Prices do appear to be on the rise as dangerously tempting cheap V8s have become thin on the ground. Mine is a diesel which is less hasle and a safer initial purchase compared to a cheap neglected LPG'd V8 but then the those cars can work out to be cheap fixes depending on the cause of any issues. Not recommending the diesel for heavy towing though. They are rubbish at low revs and pulling out of busy junctions can be bad enough without a laden trailer on the back. They are fine once the turbo is on song. Not keen on the next generation L322 myself. To me they became more road car then with independent suspension and have even more to go wrong. The styling doesn't look as well balanced in my opinion with them looking a lot more 'chelsea tractor' and they don't have that lovely split tailgate (well, not the one that lives on my road anyway). Having said that I have never driven one so if you are only using it for towing on-road then that road biased independent suspension might be he better option. I just don't think I'd turn back and smile every time I got out of it like I do with my P38.
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Last Edit: Oct 23, 2018 21:29:18 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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I suspect the other car on your street may be an L320 Sport rather than an L322, as the L322 has the separate top and bottom tailgate setup whilst the Sport has an estate car style rear hatch with a separate opening rear window. Both are nice cars to drive on the road, and hugely capable off of it, particularly because of the indipendent air suspension setup. The biggest potential expense with L322's is gearbox life (approx 100k) on the earlier BMW powered diesels, whilst the later TDV8's can have turbo issues. Petrol V8's can have the timing chain issues that the BMW M62 and Jag AJV8 suffer, but most if not all will have been sorted by now. Sport models are pretty much the same as a D3/4, TDV6 can snap cranks, and TDV8 can have turbo issues, both are also known to suffer EGR issues. RE: Slow P38's. I've been discussing P38's some with a couple of people, and it has always annoyed me some that the diesels are so often knocked for being poor performers, particularly as the M51 is a rather lively performer in other cars. Part of the reason (to my mind) is the fact it's pulling a rather heavy car and is running the same gearing as the V8 models. A power chip lives up the manual cars no end, whilst the Autoboxes do neuter them a bit more, particularly before the turbo comes in as you've already pointed out, whilst the M51 does like to rev rather than having everything it's got low down. I discovered a while back (when toying with the idea of dropping an M52 in a P38) that Ashcroft Transmissions do a 4.1:1 CROWNwheel and pinion set for P38 diffs, and theorized that the gearing change would likely make quite a positive difference to a diesel model, making a bit more use of the engines strengths. They're just short of £200+Vat for one set though... www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/ring-pinions/4-10-r-p-for-the-p38-type-diff.html
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Oct 24, 2018 11:57:52 GMT
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Well, I would, wouldn't I? 4.0L on LPG in the UK. Never had an issue with engine/gas or suspension 4.6L, no LPG. Engine runs fine, gearbox does what it should and now it's back on air, drives very nicely. Sorry Smiler if it's a common and dated green one!
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 859
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Oct 24, 2018 17:31:57 GMT
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I've recently sold an ex mil one ten ragtop which had been my daily for the last few years. Still had the 2.5NA diesel but with power steering. Loved it but it was hard work, with a tdi dropped in it would have been a perfectly competent tow vehicle (it did OK with the naturally asthmatic actually, it would move anything if you weren't in a hurry) but it wasn't that much fun to live with as everyday transport- would definitely recommend a slightly more modern one. Don't dismiss a good Discovery, a couple of friends have them in both 300tdi and TD5 flavours and love them, a couple regularly tow towards their limit (classic tractors) with no bother, the TD5 with air suspension does have the edge though.
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Last Edit: Oct 24, 2018 17:32:47 GMT by PHUQ
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Oct 25, 2018 11:22:26 GMT
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daslandroverman - ah, that would make sense, I shall take more notice next time I see it.
The diesel does go fine once on song and I am more than happy with it. It doesn't sound too bad from inside the well insulated cabin either and I've had experience of this engine in a BMW e34 which was chipped and embarrassed a lot of cars.
I have found when towing that it likes to kick down a lot through the autobox, don't know if the same is true with the V8.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Oct 25, 2018 11:36:32 GMT
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My first car was an 88" Series 2, I drove this for years as my daily and loved it (still do), when I bought a house and my commute got exponentially longer I bought a sensible car and got a soft-top 2.25 (they call it a 2.3) powered 90.
The difference between the two was night and day. Same engine, same basic body, so the whole difference was down to the 5 speed gearbox, coil suspension and disc brakes. Much quieter, and easier to drive long distances. Tows very wheel too.
Roll on a few years and my Dad has had a couple of 110's - these are more comfortable again than the 90, the longer wheelbase makes the ride less choppy.
I've never ridden around in an old Disco or Rangey, but I imagine the increase in comfort levels would be the same again as i had going from series to 90, without too much of a leap in technology to complicate maintenance.
So I guess I am saying i'd go for a Disco or Rangey...
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Oct 25, 2018 15:09:27 GMT
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Had a good trawl last night 500+ LR 90's to check out on eBay.
Was quite struck by an 07 tdci 6 speed then realised why it was reasonable. £460 road rent is insane!
So I'm probably sticking to pre 01 to keep it retro and in budget.
I think a 110 would be better towing too but seems less about than 90's.
I'd prefer V8 tbh as have a couple of spare motors but that limits me further in choice.
I'll try and get a drive of a P38 which is probably as comfy as my Merc.
Mate reckons a P38 isn't me as I'm all about the old school. Before the Merc newest car was an 88 and that was a 4wd turbo rally car.
I've got 67`s a 70, a 72, a 76, a 79, an 81 and an 83.
I've not bought trailer yet but am thinking either box trailer as clam shell race shuttles are crazy money.
Hopefully I'll get to drive a few things this weekend as Mercs in for motting tomorrow! 😀
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"To Big block or not to Big block?" Thats the question!
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Oct 26, 2018 12:39:57 GMT
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Forgot to point out that it does tow very well, but I thats because I replaced the 2.25 for a 3.5 after a couple of years!
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