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Oct 18, 2018 15:48:10 GMT
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Hi all,
This is going to sound really weird, but my friend's brother died recently and he had just bought a new car before he died suddenly. A "friend" who he was staying with has since claimed he bought the car for them and won't release it to the deceased family so they can sell it to help his children out a bit.
Obviously, my friend's brother is no longer around to confirm or deny this.
Is there anybody who is a member who could check who the registered keeper is for us? I know it sounds dodgy but even if somebody could do the check and I'll PM them the deceased guy's name, a simple yes or no could maybe help to get to the bottom of it.
Yes I know it's a police matter really, but there is no firm evidence and without it the police can't really do anything, but obviously if he bought the car for the "friend" before he died, he wouldn't have put it in his own name.
My friends family are really upset over some things people have been trying on since this person died and I was just wondering if I could help them in some small way.
Any help much appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:13:53 GMT
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Only the police can do this via pnc/dvla.....
Plus the registered keeper is not the legal owner
Hope you get it sorted
Tom
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Oct 18, 2018 16:17:40 GMT
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There are other people with access to the same database, but I'm happy if the person who helps is a policeman!
Yes, the registered keeper has an in built loophole, but like I said, if he registered it in his name he clearly wasn't giving it to this "friend"
Thanks for the input though
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Oct 18, 2018 16:46:46 GMT
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Sounds like Jeremy Kyle lie detector test needed? I HATE thsi sort of situation but it is all too common when people die. Depends on the value of teh vehicle but said 'friend' should have proof of where the money came from surely ? Any tax or insurance on it as that also would be very telling a sto ownership ?
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Oct 18, 2018 16:59:16 GMT
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Yeah I know it's just drama they don't need, the "friend" is claiming the deceased party bought and paid for the car, to give to them 🙄
There is tax MOT and insurance on it, but it was very recent so no direct debits would be cancelled yet.
Actually, wasn't there a way of checking who a car was insured by? Hmm might have to go have a look...
EDIT went and looked and it's a paid for service, I'm not forking out £265 for a years subscription to look who's insured it. But it does lead me to add the question can anyone who has paid for unlimited access, please check the insurance details for us? That may give us a lead.
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Last Edit: Oct 18, 2018 17:29:34 GMT by iamgroot: Extra info
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Oct 18, 2018 18:24:18 GMT
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Punch the details in on MID and it'll tell you whether it is insured or not , for free . All the'friend hads to do then is produce an insurance document in HIS nam eto confirm whose car it is.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:49:06 GMT
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Yeah I know it's just drama they don't need, the "friend" is claiming the deceased party bought and paid for the car, to give to them 🙄 He's admitting that the deceased chap bought and paid for the car. From a legal point of view I would imagine it would be him who has to prove he has a legal claim to the car, not the next of kin? Unfortunately I can't see the police wanting to get involved because it's a "civil matter" as they will no doubt inform you (seems to he a common cop out for them these days). A trip through the courts might be the only option, either that or get some big friends to pay him a visit. |
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Oct 19, 2018 20:01:23 GMT
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Thanks for the input, yes it's very tricky and the police can't really do anything as nobody has any proof either way.
I know it's road legal, but because he died so recently the direct debits or whatever wouldn't have gone unpaid yet, so it would show up that way.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:28:45 GMT
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... but I'm happy if the person who helps is a policeman! Any Policeman who 'helps' wouldn't be so happy when he gets the boot / charged. |
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Oct 19, 2018 21:41:00 GMT
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He's admitting that the deceased chap bought and paid for the car. From a legal point of view I would imagine it would be him who has to prove he has a legal claim to the car, not the next of kin? This. |
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awoo
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,503
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Oct 19, 2018 22:33:24 GMT
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citizens advice give 1 hour free legal advice, might be worth speaking with someone who knows the legal ins and outs.
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Thanks for the input, yes it's very tricky and the police can't really do anything as nobody has any proof either way. I know it's road legal, but because he died so recently the direct debits or whatever wouldn't have gone unpaid yet, so it would show up that way. Well, if it's financed,which, having read this post,it sounds if it is, let the finance company repossess it from the "friend" |
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barty
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,088
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Oct 20, 2018 17:05:19 GMT
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can you not ask how much he paid for the car and how and when he paid for it then get your friends family to check his account to see if it all ties up, I'm sure they will have access to his account. If it all tallies up then at least you will know, if nothing tallies up you can then take this to the CAB and see if they can point you in the right direction.
good luck and let us know how you get on
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Oct 20, 2018 19:22:06 GMT
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I would imagine that this is a case that DVLA would accept as just cause to give away identity of registered keeper via a V888 form application. Ntw guarantee but worth a try for a fiver .
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Oct 20, 2018 20:25:12 GMT
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If the car is on finance as in HP or PCP it belongs to the finance company.
On hire purchase the vehicle becomes the property of the person paying the finance after the last payment (usually there is some sort of purchase fee). With PCP it belongs to the finance company until the 'balloon' payment is settled by the purchaser, or the vehicle is surrendered or the outstanding value settled by P/x against another vehicle purchase.
If an unsecured personal loan not as clear.
If a secured loan e.g. the purchaser uses their house as guarantee or uses a second charge against the equity in the house (mortgage) it will be a debt against the deceased's estate.
The registered keeper is not necessarily the owner as stated by others.
Police will not release PNC details to a third party without legal reason as it's a data protection breech, which does not cover a civil matter.
Without a will this will be a civil matter and down to a county court.
I assume the 'friend' ,who frankly sound like a callous kent who needs to an interface with a ball-pein hammer, has the keys?
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Oct 20, 2018 20:34:52 GMT
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Sorry for any misunderstanding, it's not on finance no, I was meaning direct debits for insurance etc.
Might try that DVLA form and see if they get any joy.
If it were me I would "recover" it and wait and see if they report "their" car as stolen, if not, the truth has revealed itself.
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Wilk
Part of things
Posts: 528 
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Oct 21, 2018 14:15:14 GMT
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Have a word with the garage that sold to see who bought it
From then if there's no will saying he was to leave it to his friend then they can't prove anything and don't have legal ownership
Police might then get involved as the other party are keeping an item they can't prove they own
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If it can be fixed with a hammer, then it must be an electrical fault
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Oct 21, 2018 15:46:29 GMT
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It is going to be a legal minefield. The fact that the 'legal' owner is no more means that, technically, nobody owns the car, surely? This is what I would do. I would actually get a senior family member, such as a parent/brother/sister to telephone the DVLA and explain that he has unfortunately died. You now want to transfer the vehicle ownership into your name ( family member) and will send them proof of death with a death certificate copy and, if necessary, a copy of a birth certificate or proof of blood tie to them to confirm that transfer of ownership is to go to a family member. This is similar to ringing up a bank and getting authority/closure of an account of a deceased relative, infact, the banks have specific departments for this, I would be surprised if the DVLA doesn't have one too. Obviously, people die, their vehicles are registered to them so how does ownership normally get transferred? If that works, you go and recover the bloody car with a low loader if need be. If the curse word refuses to play ball then it is a Police matter as you would be the LEGAL owner and he would have stolen it. Unless he has, in writing, PROOF that the car was a gift to him he has NO legal grounds whatsoever to claim ownership. I know this last part to be true because I have watched Judge Rinder.  |
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Oct 21, 2018 17:08:25 GMT
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It is going to be a legal minefield. The fact that the 'legal' owner is no more means that, technically, nobody owns the car, surely? This is what I would do. I would actually get a senior family member, such as a parent/brother/sister to telephone the DVLA and explain that he has unfortunately died. You now want to transfer the vehicle ownership into your name ( family member) and will send them proof of death with a death certificate copy and, if necessary, a copy of a birth certificate or proof of blood tie to them to confirm that transfer of ownership is to go to a family member. This is similar to ringing up a bank and getting authority/closure of an account of a deceased relative, infact, the banks have specific departments for this, I would be surprised if the DVLA doesn't have one too. Obviously, people die, their vehicles are registered to them so how does ownership normally get transferred? If that works, you go and recover the bloody car with a low loader if need be. If the curse word refuses to play ball then it is a Police matter as you would be the LEGAL owner and he would have stolen it. Unless he has, in writing, PROOF that the car was a gift to him he has NO legal grounds whatsoever to claim ownership. I know this last part to be true because I have watched Judge Rinder. Hi, By and large I would say that's correct. If the 'legal' owner dies it becomes part of his estate and the executor can take charge of it, the executor will have proof that the deceased paid for it, if the 'friend' claims it's his he will have to prove that it was gifted to him. I would urge the executor or family to get legal advice that this is indeed correct because it may have to go to court to resolve it, legal fees I believe can be paid by the estate. DVSA should be informed to see if a marker can be put on it because it's disputed ownership, in case the 'friend' tries to apply to be the registered keeper. Colin |
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2018 17:10:58 GMT by colnerov
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Thanks everybody, I have to say I have no closure so far on this but I will report back when they give me the information as to what has happened
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