lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Sept 18, 2018 16:41:57 GMT
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As I understand it you then lose the original reg? Yeah....yeah you do...... But then you have a brand new car that's mot exempt for 3 years And lets face it, if you're gonna be subject to a BIVA because you've chopped out the tunnel then why not go to town on the rest of the car? Fully modern easily available brakes, suspension, electronic power steering, the sky's the limit really, and personally i'd love all the modern refinements in a classic shell Although I'm not doing any of that to mine ...but then I like my poxy overhead valve snotter
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Ritchie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 765
Club RR Member Number: 12
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Sept 18, 2018 17:10:48 GMT
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I presume it’s then on a Q plate? Or do they re-reg as new?
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Last Edit: Sept 18, 2018 17:11:03 GMT by Ritchie
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Sept 19, 2018 5:41:08 GMT
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Yes, it will be a 'Q' plate.
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Sept 19, 2018 5:42:28 GMT
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Depends. All new parts plus one reconditioned=new reg Use 2 major components from a donor=age related reg (age of donor) Pile of bits flung together=Q reg
With a bit of planning you get what you want (sort of!)
Don't forget you still have the option of "8 point builds" and body swaps.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Sept 19, 2018 17:23:41 GMT
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Depends. All new parts plus one reconditioned=new reg Use 2 major components from a donor=age related reg (age of donor) Pile of bits flung together=Q reg With a bit of planning you get what you want (sort of!) Don't forget you still have the option of "8 point builds" and body swaps. NOT if you cut ANY part of the original monocoque or chassis, THEN it is an automatic BIVA and subsequent plate of 'Q'
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,681
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 19, 2018 17:59:06 GMT
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Depends. All new parts plus one reconditioned=new reg Use 2 major components from a donor=age related reg (age of donor) Pile of bits flung together=Q reg With a bit of planning you get what you want (sort of!) Don't forget you still have the option of "8 point builds" and body swaps. NOT if you cut ANY part of the original monocoque or chassis, THEN it is an automatic BIVA and subsequent plate of 'Q' Have a look at Kit Altered - Chassis modified and 2 majors = age related www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles
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Sept 19, 2018 21:19:07 GMT
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Kit Altered? no such thing , Kit Converted yes however I believe kit converted means putting a new body on a car’s chassis with no other changes. Re read it .............
You can apply to keep a kit converted vehicle’s original registration number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with the original unmodified:
chassis (car or light van) monocoque bodyshell (car or light van) frame (motorbike)
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Last Edit: Sept 19, 2018 22:29:06 GMT by Implandy
retired with too many projects!
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Sept 20, 2018 5:50:40 GMT
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I see what you mean Darkspeed , the bit that says you can use: 'an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle' But surely that means if you've altered it with a kit from a manufacturer, which will have it's own 'type approval' for the kit when added to the specific vehicle it was designed for? I don't see any vauxhall viva pick up kits on the market ( which is what i'd be interested in ). ;
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Last Edit: Sept 20, 2018 5:51:04 GMT by lord13
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Sept 20, 2018 10:53:51 GMT
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You're overthinking it lord13. "You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with: a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle." from here www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehiclesSo if you want to do a Viva pickup just do it, you need two major parts from it and you get an age related plate after BIVA. would a "Q" plate hurt that much?
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,681
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 22, 2018 20:56:37 GMT
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Kit Altered? no such thing , Kit Converted yes however I believe kit converted means putting a new body on a car’s chassis with no other changes. Re read it ............. You can apply to keep a kit converted vehicle’s original registration number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with the original unmodified: chassis (car or light van) monocoque bodyshell (car or light van) frame (motorbike) The context is the same - and it made no odds as I gave the correct link - Re read it yourself - states quite clearly what is required for what was being discussed - AGE RELATED not what you are incorrectly referring to. "an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle" - So change bloody everything if you want - Hence my unfortunate use of the word altered you pedantically picked up on and then threw back incorrectly" You appear to be confusing registration processes with approval processes as they have different methods within this section for what you wish to achieve.
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Sept 22, 2018 22:31:36 GMT
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Mr Darkspeed , I was not having a pop , however with all the terms , altered, modified, converted , substantially being used confusion and misinterpretation is easy.
If you construed my comments as such then I apologise, however the question about cutting a bulkhead and a Q reg ,I do concede it is possible to get age related , but you will still have to have an inspection/type approval, so approval and registration are linked
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retired with too many projects!
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Sept 23, 2018 7:09:48 GMT
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This is getting to be another of those grey areas open to interpretation... The focus seems to be on 'kit-built' or 'kit-converted', it states that a 'kit-built' consists of a new car built from a kit of parts from a manufacturer, however it does not state what the 'kit' part of 'kit-converted' actually means, does this also mean a kit from a manufacturer? I would say it does, but it is a grey area.... I do not think this means i can chop the back off a car and make it into a pickup and then state it is a 'kit-converted' vehicle. That would fall into the category of 'radically-altered'. It brings me back to my question that I had with the DVLA / DVSA over the IVA exemption rule that states that a vehicle over 10 years old is exempt from the IVA, and was politely and concisely informed that any vehicle, no matter the age, has it's original identity revoked the second you alter the chassis or monocoque, thus rendering the '10 year exemption rule' invalid. As with all government legislation, it is very convoluted and difficult to follow... I would say build your car how you want it, then attempt to get it registered, if it falls within any of the IVA categories, then so be it. You will still have your car, and it will be registered and approved correctly, so who cares what the reg says, it is after all only a number, it does not detract from the car in any way. You just wont get your free tax and mot exemption if it was originally a classic.... I dunno....it gives me a headache
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Sept 26, 2018 13:32:52 GMT
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That's the whole reason for the 8 points system. You are legally allowed to modify any car within that system and only if you step outside is the vehicle considered to have voided it's identity. Rules have been in place since 1984
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Sept 26, 2018 13:39:29 GMT
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Kit Altered? no such thing , Kit Converted yes however I believe kit converted means putting a new body on a car’s chassis with no other changes. Re read it ............. You can apply to keep a kit converted vehicle’s original registration number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with the original unmodified: chassis (car or light van) monocoque bodyshell (car or light van) frame (motorbike) The context is the same - and it made no odds as I gave the correct link - Re read it yourself - states quite clearly what is required for what was being discussed - AGE RELATED not what you are incorrectly referring to. - So change bloody everything if you want - Hence my unfortunate use of the word altered you pedantically picked up on and then threw back incorrectly" You appear to be confusing registration processes with approval processes as they have different methods within this section for what you wish to achieve. This is a cock up /\ . I've contacted various departments trying to get it resolved until they told me to self copulate . The simple fact is they left the tiny letter 'UN' out in front of "an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle" . Read correctly it totally contradicts the fact that any vehicle with a modified monococue or chassis will ALWAYS end up on a Q . With kit converted you can use the original chassis and up to 8 points worth of parts ( what WE all know as a rebody) . Likewise you can take the components from one car and add them to a kit of NEW chassis and body and obtain AN age relatedto donor book but not THE reg from donor book.
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Sept 26, 2018 13:42:53 GMT
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This is getting to be another of those grey areas open to interpretation... The focus seems to be on 'kit-built' or 'kit-converted', it states that a 'kit-built' consists of a new car built from a kit of parts from a manufacturer, however it does not state what the 'kit' part of 'kit-converted' actually means, does this also mean a kit from a manufacturer? I would say it does, but it is a grey area.... I do not think this means i can chop the back off a car and make it into a pickup and then state it is a 'kit-converted' vehicle. That would fall into the category of 'radically-altered'. It brings me back to my question that I had with the DVLA / DVSA over the IVA exemption rule that states that a vehicle over 10 years old is exempt from the IVA, and was politely and concisely informed that any vehicle, no matter the age, has it's original identity revoked the second you alter the chassis or monocoque, thus rendering the '10 year exemption rule' invalid. As with all government legislation, it is very convoluted and difficult to follow... I would say build your car how you want it, then attempt to get it registered, if it falls within any of the IVA categories, then so be it. You will still have your car, and it will be registered and approved correctly, so who cares what the reg says, it is after all only a number, it does not detract from the car in any way. You just wont get your free tax and mot exemption if it was originally a classic.... I dunno....it gives me a headache Correct IVA test doesnt apply to STANDARD vehicles more than 10 years old only to NEW vehicles. An OLD Viva becomes a NEW car ( for registration purposes ) the moment it's right to identity is revoked by modifying outside the 8 points system.
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Sept 26, 2018 20:28:08 GMT
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That's the whole reason for the 8 points system. You are legally allowed to modify any car within that system and only if you step outside is the vehicle considered to have voided it's identity. Rules have been in place since 1984 Aha, could interject here and ask, if a modified vehicle outside the 8 point rule is used on the road how would the authorities know? If the owner has modified it themselves to such a degree it should lose its identity is he expected to inform the authorities? It seems as though there is a gaping hole here.
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Sept 26, 2018 21:00:17 GMT
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Yes, the owner IS meant to advise , that is on the DVLA website . The fact that you wouldn't know you had to notify or that even to look for if you had to notify would only happen if you already knew you had to notify Unfortunately with DVLA you are guilty unitil proven innocent and whatever causes a capture would still have the same outcome. It's like speeding down B roads, if you aren't caught did it really happen ? We are lucky that virtually every depatment is under funded and understaffed or we woudl have a much bigger problem Like if you built an extension on your house would claiming you didn't know anything about planning permission let you get away with it ? I can actually see both sides of the arguement and although a LEGAL requirement it is down to each individuals attitude to risk . The BIVA spec is a sound one to build to technically from ensuring a safe project and, if using post 76 vehicles most of it is already contained with the OEM spec build.Likewise the bulk of BIVA is in how you do stuff rarelr requiring extra cost ...except possibly glass. The attitude would obviously vary as well dependent on the cost involved . If you cut the roof of a £500 car to buzz round in for a summers fun would you'd bother to put it in for a £450 test or simply run the risk of being caught ? Obvious differences in body types NOT notified on logbook would get a tug ie pick or convertible when logbook states saloon. Declaring the body change ( as required by law) would also be a reason to be caught. On the other hand if you were sinking your lifes savings into your dream car then you attitude would be different ...well I'd presume so, I know mine would be .
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Last Edit: Sept 26, 2018 21:04:17 GMT by kapri
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Sept 26, 2018 21:20:10 GMT
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It seems there is not any "policing " going on to actually identify modified cars outside the 8 point rule being used on the roads. If the car has an MOT and insured declaring modifications, I wonder if it is an offence to use it on the road. I see modified cars imported,registered with only engine cc changed from original mentioned on V5 and being used on the roads for years and clearly they are outside 8point rule. Are these cars now all requiring BIVA test I wonder IE retrospective legislation? I do see the need for legislation though, any old tom dick or harry could decide to change the original specification of there car and turn it into a death trap so it is allways best to have a second pair of eyes to check thing out or to build to a standard in the first place.
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Sept 27, 2018 10:22:23 GMT
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Around 18 months ago DVLA stated they were going to redesign the V5C to make tracking identity easier. Haven't seen anything yet but that would obviously be another way. Finding a highly modified car and sending it for BIVA would NOT be retospective legislatio even if an import,regs have been in place for testing since 1998 . It's all a fluid process and they can come back at anytime and say " tsk tsk"
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Sept 27, 2018 11:50:36 GMT
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Yep all very clear for me, could you clarify please:- If the car has an MOT and insured and modifications declared to be outside the 8 point rule, is it an offence to use it on the road.?
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