ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Oct 13, 2018 10:27:22 GMT
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Excellent we finally seem to be getting somewhere with this. Finally people are realising that BIVA is the process for determining the age of a vehicle when registering it hence the 8 point system.
The legal requirements to having a vehicle on the road are of course roadworthiness (this is meeting c&u regulations and mot where required) , ved and insurance. There is no argument to this (apart from on here sadly) to an already registered vehicle.
Anyone who spouts different could be open to a legal challenge and could lose their house.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,679
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Oct 13, 2018 14:16:36 GMT
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Finally people are realising that BIVA is the process for determining the age of a vehicle when registering it hence the 8 point system. Nope.
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Oct 13, 2018 18:34:36 GMT
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Yet more berlocks. Go away.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Oct 13, 2018 23:43:26 GMT
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Excellent we finally seem to be getting somewhere with this. Finally people are realising that BIVA is the process for determining the age of a vehicle when registering it hence the 8 point system. The legal requirements to having a vehicle on the road are of course roadworthiness (this is meeting c&u regulations and mot where required) , ved and insurance. There is no argument to this (apart from on here sadly) to an already registered vehicle. Anyone who spouts different could be open to a legal challenge and could lose their house. Exactly 100% wrong on all counts - which is an improvement on your previous mixed up curse word. Where’s my length of virtual 4”x2” gone? Someone needs it round the back of the head.
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Oct 14, 2018 14:11:26 GMT
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He's the gift that keeps on giving 😂
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ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Oct 18, 2018 22:18:12 GMT
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Excellent we finally seem to be getting somewhere with this. Finally people are realising that BIVA is the process for determining the age of a vehicle when registering it hence the 8 point system. The legal requirements to having a vehicle on the road are of course roadworthiness (this is meeting c&u regulations and mot where required) , ved and insurance. There is no argument to this (apart from on here sadly) to an already registered vehicle. Anyone who spouts different could be open to a legal challenge and could lose their house. Exactly 100% wrong on all counts - which is an improvement on your previous mixed up curse word. Where’s my length of virtual 4”x2” gone? Someone needs it round the back of the head. Administrator-please deal with this as required. Phil Howard rhymes with Coward ? curse word.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Yes - can someone remove ftz313’s inaccurate statements? I think that means most of this thread.
Thanks for the recognition ftz313, but I’m not a coward. Please explain your assumption?
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2018 1:29:21 GMT by Phil H
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Oct 21, 2018 11:38:05 GMT
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This thread just keeps on going round.
I suspect some people have issues understanding the difference between 'not getting caught' and 'legal'. They are not the same thing.
What I do know is, when it comes to these matters, I'd trust @kapri's opinion over just about anyone elses. If your interpretation of the rules doesn't align with @kapri then you're on risky ground. When you're reading this thread, please bear that in mind.
Also, threats of violence and childish name-based slurs are not the RR way. Let's not do it, eh?
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2018 11:39:20 GMT by rmad
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ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Nov 25, 2018 11:19:55 GMT
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I don't often log in but read occasionally but this has been a useful exercise in getting to the bottom of this.
The legal declaration requirements are stated on the v5c. There was legislation that came out from the EU about '07 essentially type approving bodies but it said it could not to be applied retrospectively. Therefore for vehicles already registered their compliance is with the required declarations on the v5c and the construction an use regulations, commonly known as the C & U regulations. This is like height of headlights etc. I do believe the vehicle has to at least retain the silhouette though and this ties in with height of headlights, glass, lights, spray suppression etc. i.e does it still look like an xyz.
I see that the advice here is always pointing towards reregistering a vehicle but the harsh reality is that the vehicles do not need to be reregistered in almost all cases. I
I've consistently watched people try to apply the wrong legislation, (registering a vehicle legislation to an already registered vehicle) and part of this exercise over the last 6 months or so has been for me with an understanding of law and legislation to explore this and fully understand it. So thank-you.
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Nov 25, 2018 12:39:27 GMT
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I don't often log in but read occasionally but this has been a useful exercise in getting to the bottom of this. The legal declaration requirements are stated on the v5c. There was legislation that came out from the EU about '07 essentially type approving bodies but it said it could not to be applied retrospectively. Therefore for vehicles already registered their compliance is with the required declarations on the v5c and the construction an use regulations, commonly known as the C & U regulations. This is like height of headlights etc. I do believe the vehicle has to at least retain the silhouette though and this ties in with height of headlights, glass, lights, spray suppression etc. i.e does it still look like an xyz. I’m confused, why did DVLA rescind the V5 on Mark, of this very parish, ‘53 pop? He posted the letter from DVLA on his thread... it was registered and they rescinded it when he went to re-tax it I believe... but it retained the profile of a ‘53 pop and was already registered I believe the information given to people is to avoid the risk of that happening to others, I understand it is a grey area and there is likely some wriggle room, but worry for people who don’t understand the implications of getting it wrong based on anyone’s interpretations of the rules. Out of interest, have you been through the IVA process and what vehicles have you got personally that you have modified but retain their registrations. Maybe if people see what you have modified and retained the registration on then they can learn where you have used the wriggle room that others have fallen foul of
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Nov 25, 2018 20:36:08 GMT
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You are legally allowed to modify any car within that system and only if you step outside is the vehicle considered to have voided it's identity. Rules have been in place since the early 1980's, lets that sink in first.
Its not re -registering , the vehicle that held that registration no longer exists as its been modified so is classed as radically altered , that registration no longer exists.
Its registering a new vehicle because in the eyes of the law that's what it is , then all the current legislation applies to it.
Its been pointed out the changes you need to notify, and that's not restricted to the V5 so stop trying to hide behind that.The 8 points system is used to ensure correct identity, once you drop below the 8 points then its no longer the same vehicle, its now considered as a NEW vehicle that then needs registering.
Overview
You’ll usually have to register a car or any other vehicle as soon as you’ve:
bought it built it rebuilt or altered it imported it You do this by filling in forms and sending them to DVLA. The forms you have to send depend on your circumstances.
DVLA may need to inspect your vehicle to:
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retired with too many projects!
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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I don't often log in but read occasionally but this has been a useful exercise in getting to the bottom of this. The legal declaration requirements are stated on the v5c. There was legislation that came out from the EU about '07 essentially type approving bodies but it said it could not to be applied retrospectively. Therefore for vehicles already registered their compliance is with the required declarations on the v5c and the construction an use regulations, commonly known as the C & U regulations. This is like height of headlights etc. I do believe the vehicle has to at least retain the silhouette though and this ties in with height of headlights, glass, lights, spray suppression etc. i.e does it still look like an xyz. I’m confused, why did DVLA rescind the V5 on Mark, of this very parish, ‘53 pop? He posted the letter from DVLA on his thread... it was registered and they rescinded it when he went to re-tax it I believe... but it retained the profile of a ‘53 pop and was already registered I believe the information given to people is to avoid the risk of that happening to others, I understand it is a grey area and there is likely some wriggle room, but worry for people who don’t understand the implications of getting it wrong based on anyone’s interpretations of the rules. Out of interest, have you been through the IVA process and what vehicles have you got personally that you have modified but retain their registrations. Maybe if people see what you have modified and retained the registration on then they can learn where you have used the wriggle room that others have fallen foul of The only possible confusion is when you rely on the replies from ftz313 as gospel. BIVA = exactly what it stands for - Basic Individual Vehicle Approval, namely Approval "light" for an Individual Vehicle for which there is no Approval in place as there is for "production" vehicles. This is known as "Type Approval" (in short, an example of said vehicle is tested and if it passes the requirements of the day, allows all others made to the same requirements to be deemed meeting the tests without each one having to go through it). BIVA is a (in the great scheme of things) a very generous route to being allowed to legally drive a (usually modified) vehicle on the road which hasn't had full Type Approval which (and I'm happy to be corrected on this) doesn't have to meet the full emissions regulation in force on the day of registration or to have successfully passed crash testing - something a mass-produced vehicle must do. If, under the 8 point rule (and accompanying notes regarding chassis/unitary body modification) the vehicle is deemed not to sufficiently be the original vehicle, it is no longer the same vehicle that was originally registered and assigned that registration mark. That's when the authorities then rescind the existing registration. Consider Triggers Broom as a simplified example. If it has 4 new heads and 2 new handles, how can it be the same broom? It's not a grey area - the rules are reasonably clear. The issue sometimes comes from interpretation of those rules but there's sufficient accurate knowledge on here (not ftz313) and elsewhere to enable you/anyone to be able to meet those rules with a high degree of probability. As to how far you can push things, see the "Medusa" thread in the General area. That wonderful creation retains the identity of the original Taxi as it retains sufficient parts of the original vehicle according to the rules (and the lengths that were gone to to ensure the rules were met). According to ftz313, it shouldn't still retain its identity as it isn't the same silhouette?
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Last Edit: Nov 26, 2018 8:41:54 GMT by Phil H
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Nov 26, 2018 17:25:32 GMT
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This has been explained to you many times by people on here. You either refuse to believe them or cannot understand what is being said. Just to add to your own confusion you keep referencing type approval from 2008 or some other irrelevant nonsense. It really is simple, DVLA grant registrations to vehicles (totally independent of type approval although it may be required) and they can take them away. They take them away when the vehicle is no longer the one they kindly granted the registration to. At this point it has to comply with their requirements to get a new registration. It's all on the government website in plain English, a fact you seem unable to accept. I can assure you that I would not be bothering with BIVA if I did not need to, especially as the profile has not changed.
Yours, Crockpot, owner of one vehicle that has a very different profile to original but some how kept it's reg, one vehicle with 9 points left and one with no points left. I'm sure you can work out what that implies.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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