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Jun 21, 2018 21:24:51 GMT
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Hi folks, I was tinkering with the Hunter to fettle some issues after a 150 mile round trip Wales-Midlands, and someone stopped for a chat. Basically they like 60s motors, and mentioned they had one in the barn they were thinking of selling - was I interested? I had a trip to their farm today and was stunned They have about a dozen 60s motors, the one that caught my attention is one of my favourite 60s estates Nothing decided yet but they are going to have a think about things, the good news is that I was told any the cars *could* be for sale Advice appreciated about what is the legal minimum a barnfind car needs so I can get it registered My thinking is : No registration number = almost impossible ( but what are the options ?). Numberplate etc but no current V5 = possible but risky ? Old style V5 = not good but should be ok. New V5 = perfect.The cars were all moved to the property about 10 years ago, I'm hoping all the registrations were updated with the new address but I don't know yet. Realistically all are beyond sensible repair but since when has anyone on here taken the sensible option when buying a car Other small problems are... The cars are parked on a steep sloping garden, and the one I like was first there (so will be the most difficult to get out), any advice - or willing volunteers based around North/Mid Wales - would be great. They do have a tractor and 4WD truck which changes the removal from impossible to almost impossible I'm currently homeless, so if anyone has a spare house with space to work on a car for the next 6 months, let me know and we might be able to work something out ! As per the rules, have a link to an interesting barnfind website www.barn-finds.co.uk/2013/11/25/mk1-ford-escort-estate/ and a random pic as thanks
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Last Edit: Jun 22, 2018 9:05:56 GMT by nomad
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Jun 21, 2018 21:32:09 GMT
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I'm in North Wales as you know and could possibly lend a hand work dependant, can you give a rough area of where they are? Pm me if it's easier
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Jun 21, 2018 21:39:28 GMT
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Advice appreciated about what is the legal minimum a barnfind car needs so I can get it registered My thinking is : No registration number = almost impossible ( but what are the options ?). Numberplate etc but no current V5 = possible but risky ? Old style V5 = not good but should be ok. New V5 = perfect. Speaking from experience, not citing it as law, but - when I tried to register a barn find BMW, off the road since 1990, I had massive difficulty in getting any headway with DVLA with just the VIN. It was too old to pull anything up using a trade HPI (which if you do on the VIN will show you the number plate) and DVLA were essentially saying no. I worked out what the number plate had been from the old ones which were in pieces but even then it was a no (which I don't think was right, but it was because it wasn't showing as being on their database). Then I (actually) found an old green logbook in the car and used that in the end, with that there was no problem and they did send it back when I asked (for posterity). I wonder given the new Data Protection Directive and how the current V5s are coming back with no previous owners details, if they would acquiesce for you to retain an old V5 in this scenario...
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Jun 21, 2018 21:52:31 GMT
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^ Thanks both astranaut - PM sent surprisingskoda - your info confirms my idea that DVLA/DVLC make the rules up as they go along. Not good news
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Jun 21, 2018 22:13:38 GMT
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Somewhat different to my experience of registering an old motor.
I 'inherited' my estate which hadn't been on the road for well over 20 years from my great uncle who'd been dead years. As in, I took it from the garage of his abandoned derelict house to save it being crushed when the house was demolished (with no logbook etc.) Although I did have permission from the executor of the will (who also had legal control over the estate as a guardian). Just applied to register the car in my name with a V62 form, and that was that. They never asked me any details and needed no additional info, nor was any contact made with the guardian or executor of the will.
Maybe I just got lucky?
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS 1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic 1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i 2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Jun 21, 2018 22:33:41 GMT
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Data Protection Directive and how the current V5s are coming back with no previous owners details, if they would acquiesce for you to retain an old V5 in this scenario... Just tell them you have a scan of the logbook so you already have those details anyway. My Dad has a Lotus VI which he's owned for over 40 of its 60 years, I once spent a few hours researching the early owners of the car from the buff logbook, quite interesting as they included a F3 driver, a chap who went on to found a very well-known and successful racing stables & stud as well as someone who went on trial for major art forgery.
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Last Edit: Jun 23, 2018 9:53:06 GMT by MkX
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Jun 21, 2018 22:52:02 GMT
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Somewhat different to my experience of registering an old motor. I 'inherited' my estate which hadn't been on the road for well over 20 years ... Hi, thanks for the info. I *think* anything that has been registered (taxed, change of address etc) since DVLA went computerised* should be on their system so V62 might be an easy solution. The early 1960s motors I'm looking have been off the road for many years, if they have been wiped from DVLA computers (or were never there in the first place) it might be similar to the problems above ^ * A random Google find says DVLA went computerised in 1970s/80s, so there's a fair chance wrecks from the early 60s have never been on their system www.autocycle.org.uk/v765.htmlEdit : if there's no number plates / logbook / taxdisk with the car, I won't know the reg number so can't even try to use V62 I don't mind repairing the car but I'm trying to avoid taking in a project that turns out to be impossible to register. Thanks to everyone for their input
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Last Edit: Jun 21, 2018 22:57:25 GMT by nomad
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,087
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Sounds like you have all the info you need. Find the VIN on the car, rummage for a number plate, or any documents that might have it written on, fill out relevant forms and cross your fingers. It does seem from other threads that the way to register a car is to just keep asking until they say yes, regardless of the info you've got available, especially when it's pre-digital vehicles like the ones mentioned.
I look foward to seeing your new Hillman-Humber-Singer Hunter-Sceptre-Vogue.
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1900sr
Part of things
I like Mantas me!
Posts: 875
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Jun 22, 2018 21:32:52 GMT
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No reg number, you may be able to get it registered on an age related plate if you can prove when it was made (usually involves getting info from the manufacturer). Reg number, check if it's on the computer using the DVLA tax checker, if it is just apply for a V5. if it's not on the computer to retain the original reg you need something to prove the reg belongs to the car (old buff logbook, copy of original reg details from the archives etc) and a V765 form signed by an appropriate owners club www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-a-vehicle-under-its-original-registration-number If you can't link it to original reg then you can get an age related one if you can prove date of manufacture. Old style V5 or new, should be good to go (but check it shows up on system still otherwise it's V765 time again).
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jun 22, 2018 22:29:58 GMT
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A v765 is almost useless now. DVLA won't give you a document unless you have an old registration document AS WELL as the vin and number plate. Basically you now can't register a car on its original ID without supporting paperwork. Just the numbers on the car itself isn't good enough unless it's already on the computerised system.
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1900sr
Part of things
I like Mantas me!
Posts: 875
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A v765 is almost useless now. DVLA won't give you a document unless you have an old registration document AS WELL as the vin and number plate. Basically you now can't register a car on its original ID without supporting paperwork. Just the numbers on the car itself isn't good enough unless it's already on the computerised system. As I posted above you do need to prove that the reg number belongs to the car, but there are other items the DVLA will accept apart from a registration document. There is more info on the FBHVC page here www.fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and-fuels/dvla-and-dvsa/If you can't link the original reg to the car you can still get it registered on an age related plate if you can prove when it was made.
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If you cant find any proof of age or proof of previous reg number but can find the vin number and engine number can it be registered on a Q plate? might be a way to get it on the road if all else fails
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paulw
Part of things
Posts: 216
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I have some experience of this, and it's not good. I bought something similar that had no reg but a Chassis number. I had a check run by (I think) Experian on the chassis number to see if it threw anything up like it was stolen and they said the number wasn't on the system. Wrote to DVLA telling them I didn't know the reg but here's the chassis number, they wrote back to me saying you didn't send us the reg so you're out of luck. I then called them, and they told me to 'restore' the car (by which they mean get an MoT, they eventually explained) and then apply again for a new reg following the guidelines here: www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/new-registrationsUnfortunately getting bits for it is a pain and I've lost interest in it so haven't got it to MoT stage yet so I don't know if it will be successful, but be warned if you don't have a reg number you essentially need to gamble the money and time to MoT it with no guarantee they will actually register it once done.
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Lotus Seven '58 Ford Special 64 Barracuda
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paulw
Part of things
Posts: 216
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Q plate would mean passing an IVA test, which for most older cars would mean lots of changes to modern spec
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Lotus Seven '58 Ford Special 64 Barracuda
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I have quite a bit of experience with barn / garage finds - currently have 2 Jowett's in my barn that are for sale that I recovered a little while ago - so any documentation that you can source is very helpful - things like the old logbook, period pics, old tax discs for the vehicle - owners clubs can be immensely helpful and most have a nominated officer that handles registration reissues / problems with DVLA - some clubs will hold original factory records with most clubs also having nominated officers that hold register details for the various models that the marque produced - out of this information vehicle build dates, registration numbers can be found from a vin / chassis number and in some cases the vin / chassis number can be traced from the registration number. The British Motor Museum at Gaydon hold records on a vast range of UK manufactured vehicles especially anything under the BL / BLMC / Austin / Morris range, The Coventry Transport Museum holds records on vehicles built within Coventry & Solihull & The Rootes Archive Centre Trust holds records on the Rootes range - it's quite surprising what a little research can unearth - Within a few days of collecting the Jowett's I had traced the complete ownership history, found owners club register details, some factory records - discovered a few bits of information within the vehicles themselves like several old tax discs, a letter from DVLA in the 1980's confirming one of the vehicles was on their records - only after I had done this did the estate get back to me and advised that they had now found both of the original buff logbooks - but over a substantial period and quite a few vehicles I have yet to be refused the reissue of the original registration index by DVLA for a recovered / lost then found vehicle. Have a pic of some of my recovered tat
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Last Edit: Jun 23, 2018 9:37:55 GMT by Deleted
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Dez - noted, thanks. I need to find out what comes with the car (reg number, plates, tax disk, old or new logbook, etc) before I can tell what's possible. Fist prioirity is to get the reg and see if it's on the computerised system. gazzab1978 technically you are right, but see reply from paulw - it's just not realistic for me to update a 1960s car to modern spec just to pass an IVA type test. Helpful stuff, thanks. That links to some other pages, including FBHVC www.fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and-fuels/dvla-and-dvsa/ (I'm doubtful if that has beenupdated - it mentions local DVLA offices which disappeared many years ago) I'll let you know if / when I find out any more !
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No reg number, you may be able to get it registered on an age related plate if you can prove when it was made (usually involves getting info from the manufacturer). Reg number, check if it's on the computer using the DVLA tax checker, if it is just apply for a V5. if it's not on the computer to retain the original reg you need something to prove the reg belongs to the car (old buff logbook, copy of original reg details from the archives etc) and a V765 form signed by an appropriate owners club www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-to-register-a-vehicle-under-its-original-registration-number If you can't link it to original reg then you can get an age related one if you can prove date of manufacture. Old style V5 or new, should be good to go (but check it shows up on system still otherwise it's V765 time again). I think this must have been where I was getting turned away, in that I had nothing to support the plate being for the car (apart from physically the plate being on the car lol) so with it not being on their database, it was a no go. Wasn't helped by being in N.I. and lots of old cars were dropped off when DVA moved from Coleraine (here) to DVLA Swansea in what, 2012ish?
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Q plate would mean passing an IVA test, which for most older cars would mean lots of changes to modern spec Not at all, Q plates are also issued for cars where the original registration is in question. Case in point, my 1991 imported 1979 Cadillac was on a Q plate until last year. No IVA, BIVA, SVA or even IVF tests were involved, they just refused to consider the dating certificate from the Cadillac owners club and so it's "indeterminate year of manufacture".
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Jun 23, 2018 10:05:11 GMT
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You know all those people on ebay that sell those 'collectable' buff log books?
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paulw
Part of things
Posts: 216
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Jun 27, 2018 22:43:11 GMT
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Q plate would mean passing an IVA test, which for most older cars would mean lots of changes to modern spec Not at all, Q plates are also issued for cars where the original registration is in question. Case in point, my 1991 imported 1979 Cadillac was on a Q plate until last year. No IVA, BIVA, SVA or even IVF tests were involved, they just refused to consider the dating certificate from the Cadillac owners club and so it's "indeterminate year of manufacture". is that still the case though? I know it used to happen (a lot of Yanks running round on Qs a few years back) but I thought these days a Q plate was only for IVA'd vehicles - reading the DVLA site there doesn't appear to be any way of registering a car that isn't either a classic that has its original number (which must mean proof of age) or via IVA.
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Lotus Seven '58 Ford Special 64 Barracuda
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