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Nov 21, 2017 23:02:17 GMT
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,565
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Thanks for posting this.
What do they mean by reconstructed ?
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Nov 22, 2017 13:34:06 GMT
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You can collect a full set of old parts for a particular car, Austin 7 for example and get the club to verify it is all valid original parts and then get an age related V5c. This is called a reconstructed classic which it now seems will need an MOT but retain tax free status.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Nov 22, 2017 14:50:39 GMT
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Thanks for posting this. What do they mean by reconstructed ? The DVLA definition of a reconstructed classic vehicle. www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles"DVLA can only recognise your vehicle as a reconstructed classic vehicle if it meets certain criteria. It must be: built from genuine period components from more than one vehicle, all over 25 years old and of the same specification as the original vehicle a true reflection of the marque The appropriate vehicle owners’ club for the vehicle type (‘marque’) must inspect the vehicle and confirm in writing that it: has been inspected is a true reflection of the marque is comprised of genuine period components all over 25 years old They must also give manufacture dates for the major components. DVLA will assign an age-related registration number to the vehicle based on the youngest component used." |
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Nov 22, 2017 16:50:24 GMT
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Thanks for sharing, at least we now know what they consider "radically modified"  I'll keep my other thoughts to myself for now  |
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edk83
Part of things
Posts: 849 
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Nov 22, 2017 17:20:12 GMT
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This has been up on the Gov site since September, still waiting for the final version which they claim will be this month.
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,565
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Nov 22, 2017 19:59:48 GMT
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Thanks for posting this. What do they mean by reconstructed ? The DVLA definition of a reconstructed classic vehicle. www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles"DVLA can only recognise your vehicle as a reconstructed classic vehicle if it meets certain criteria. It must be: built from genuine period components from more than one vehicle, all over 25 years old and of the same specification as the original vehicle a true reflection of the marque The appropriate vehicle owners’ club for the vehicle type (‘marque’) must inspect the vehicle and confirm in writing that it: has been inspected is a true reflection of the marque is comprised of genuine period components all over 25 years old They must also give manufacture dates for the major components. DVLA will assign an age-related registration number to the vehicle based on the youngest component used." I have never heard of this before. So if I have a nice base model MK2 Escort for instance and loose the log book I can fit RS2000 parts and badges and get a numberplate to suit. If it looks like a proper RS2000 will DVLA call it one ? |
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Nov 22, 2017 20:41:10 GMT
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The DVLA definition of a reconstructed classic vehicle. www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles"DVLA can only recognise your vehicle as a reconstructed classic vehicle if it meets certain criteria. It must be: built from genuine period components from more than one vehicle, all over 25 years old and of the same specification as the original vehicle a true reflection of the marque The appropriate vehicle owners’ club for the vehicle type (‘marque’) must inspect the vehicle and confirm in writing that it: has been inspected is a true reflection of the marque is comprised of genuine period components all over 25 years old They must also give manufacture dates for the major components. DVLA will assign an age-related registration number to the vehicle based on the youngest component used." I have never heard of this before. So if I have a nice base model MK2 Escort for instance and loose the log book I can fit RS2000 parts and badges and get a numberplate to suit. If it looks like a proper RS2000 will DVLA call it one ? Unlikely because as per the rules, it is highly unlikely you will receive the written confirmation from the relevant recognised Owner's Club that it is a true reflection of an RS2000 because it doesn't have the provenance. |
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,565
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Nov 22, 2017 21:19:41 GMT
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I have never heard of this before. So if I have a nice base model MK2 Escort for instance and loose the log book I can fit RS2000 parts and badges and get a numberplate to suit. If it looks like a proper RS2000 will DVLA call it one ? Unlikely because as per the rules, it is highly unlikely you will receive the written confirmation from the relevant recognised Owner's Club that it is a true reflection of an RS2000 because it doesn't have the provenance. Ah, but that would depend on the owners club. Not every marquee is as high profile. That's a lot of power to be given to a mere club. Time to start an owners club I think. |
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Nov 22, 2017 21:36:01 GMT
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This has been up on the Gov site since September, still waiting for the final version which they claim will be this month. true. but try getting people to believe it. |
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Nov 22, 2017 22:14:23 GMT
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I feel like the 15% power to weight ratio thing will get canned in the final incarnation. I just can't see how it will be testable.
The rest of it seems pretty straight forward and fair.
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Nov 22, 2017 23:07:42 GMT
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I feel like the 15% power to weight ratio thing will get canned in the final incarnation. I just can't see how it will be testable. The rest of it seems pretty straight forward and fair. It doesn't NEED to be testable! Owners will be required to self incriminate by declaring it! However, I too think it will be canned in favour of the 8 point DVLA rule for "Radically modified" which is what all the other criteria are drawn from! Whilst I can't think of good way of testing for it (a rolling road test is not reliable even if they could afford to pay to have it done) Cars like mine, which have been officially and fully legally updated with DVLA will have a papertrail leading straight to my door! I have replaced my original 61bhp 1296cc engine with a 135bhp 1998cc unit and declared such to DVLA in 2011. So I can't avoid it! Others however, who have uprated OE engines will probably get away with it for lack of evidence (which is why I think the measure will be dropped or modified) At the moment, this only means I will continue to need an MOT, no hardship, as i'd have it done anyway! The implication though, is that DVLA is considering applying this 15% P2W increase limit to existing VHIs with a view to removing VHI status from them if they have been "substantially altered" in this way. So once again, it looks like the goalposts are being moved in a way that particularly targets Retro Riders! NOTE, DfT's "substantially altered" is NOT the same thing as DVLA's "radically modified" Steve. |
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I feel like the 15% power to weight ratio thing will get canned in the final incarnation. I just can't see how it will be testable. The rest of it seems pretty straight forward and fair. It doesn't NEED to be testable! Owners will be required to self incriminate by declaring it! However, I too think it will be canned in favour of the 8 point DVLA rule for "Radically modified" which is what all the other criteria are drawn from! Whilst I can't think of good way of testing for it (a rolling road test is not reliable even if they could afford to pay to have it done) Cars like mine, which have been officially and fully legally updated with DVLA will have a papertrail leading straight to my door! I have replaced my original 61bhp 1296cc engine with a 135bhp 1998cc unit and declared such to DVLA in 2011. So I can't avoid it! Others however, who have uprated OE engines will probably get away with it for lack of evidence (which is why I think the measure will be dropped or modified) At the moment, this only means I will continue to need an MOT, no hardship, as i'd have it done anyway! The implication though, is that DVLA is considering applying this 15% P2W increase limit to existing VHIs with a view to removing VHI status from them if they have been "substantially altered" in this way. So once again, it looks like the goalposts are being moved in a way that particularly targets Retro Riders! NOTE, DfT's "substantially altered" is NOT the same thing as DVLA's "radically modified" Steve. I'm in the same boat I've declared mine and modified within the 8 points all legal and above board And now the goal posts have been moved |
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Wecome to the only Govt. policy that you can rely on to stay the same in most industries! ☺
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Unlikely because as per the rules, it is highly unlikely you will receive the written confirmation from the relevant recognised Owner's Club that it is a true reflection of an RS2000 because it doesn't have the provenance. Ah, but that would depend on the owners club. Not every marquee is as high profile. That's a lot of power to be given to a mere club. Time to start an owners club I think. It can't just be any Owners' Club, it has to be one recognised by the DVLA. Clubs like the the Aston Martin Owners' Club and the Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club have history and credibility recognised by the DVLA. You can't just start a club with your mate Jeff and call it "RS2000s R Us" and expect the DLVA to take you seriously when Jeff writes a Post-It Note saying "Yeah this RS2000 is deffo legit, please give him a logbook, kthxbai". |
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Last Edit: Nov 23, 2017 8:06:23 GMT by VIP
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,565
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Not all owners clubs have headed notepaper though. If you own something obscure who is to say your club isn't as important as another just because you only have 3 members and meet down the Swan !
I know what you are saying but I wonder what it would take to be a recognised authority. Even some small obscure Kit Car clubs hold some sway with the DVLA. If you have problems with logbooks for example an owners club can help or not as the case may be, it just depends on how much of a good mate you are.
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Nov 23, 2017 11:59:24 GMT
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I've been a bit concerned about my Beetle but this is quite reassuring if this is how it is applied. Like lots of VWs (and Land Rovers and many others) the floorpan, engine and gearbox have been replaced over the years. If this means it will be classed as a re-constructed classic and keep the age-related ID then I would be happy.
Also quite happy to keep MOTing it.
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67 VW Split bus
69 Beetle Cab
96 Jeep Cherokee XJ Sport
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I've been a bit concerned about my Beetle but this is quite reassuring if this is how it is applied. Like lots of VWs (and Land Rovers and many others) the floorpan, engine and gearbox have been replaced over the years. If this means it will be classed as a re-constructed classic and keep the age-related ID then I would be happy. Also quite happy to keep MOTing it. The way I read the reconstructed classic bit is that if you've replaced stuff over time, you're ok. If you've started out with nothing, then bought a floorpan at a show, a body off eBay, a mates dad's barn had a load of running gear from various breakers and so on, that becomes a reconstructed classic. The end result is exactly the same, but the route to get there is different. Personally, I can't see why it matters! If I build a Beetle up out of parts, I register it as the floorpan and that's it. If I have a nice, low miles, original but rotten 1967 beetle, and a restored floorpan from an aborted 1973 project for example, I should be perfectly entitled to build that car.BUT I'd expect to register it as a 1973 Beetle, as the floorpan carries the ID. as long as I've kept a balljoint beam, a Beetle gearbox and an aircooled flat four VW motor, does it really matter where they came from? Sorry, Sunday morning ramble! |
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Nov 27, 2017 13:01:35 GMT
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I agree. I know the regs were originally intended to prevented stolen cars having their identity changed so I could never see the problem with swapping a few things round to keep a classic on the road. In the old days, when these things were cheaper, it was almost always cheaper to swap to a whole new floorpan if your frame head was rotten, for example. Almost certainly makes a better, safer job of it too.
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67 VW Split bus
69 Beetle Cab
96 Jeep Cherokee XJ Sport
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Nov 27, 2017 18:50:02 GMT
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All these years of dispensing facts and STILL nobody understands the basics and want to argue the toss to suit THEM. Reconstructed Classics has absolutely NOTHING to do with restoring an existing car.
The 15% criteria means ... NOTHING . It is simply an abstract idea to identify ANY mods easliy, legal or not . They might just as well chosen "has it ever been smoked in" s a criteria ? Everyone wold be arguing " does that mean EVER or regularly" " what about filtered tips " " I only smoke menthol " " What about vaping ?". The simple fact is that within the EU Regulation initially put forward a VHI would have been 100% standard.We obtaine dthe opportunity to chnage that and no one could be bothered so 15% is what we were given.
The only thing to change wil be cars NOT meeting the VHI criteria will still have to have MOTs, or ine the case of pre 60 already exemept go back to having MOTs. , they will retain Historic 'free' tax ( that most seem worried about) and that's IT.
What the changes DO mean is that DVLA willhave t etool sto siplyidentify what vehicles have been modified , legally or not.
If you have broken the rules htat have been in place for 35 years now you MAY have cause for concern.
If you are concerned at the POSSIBILTY you may now be caught then perhaps 'you' weren't a big a rebel as you thought . It might then be time to get 'your' act together and rectify thaa issue?
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