heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848 
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
|
Hi all.
So as usual, I did some ebay impulse-buying - in the shape of a mk6 transit 2.3 lpg. Turns out it's great, and pretty hilarious to drive! The 2.3 is a 16v Duratec I think, so does anyone know about cheaply squeezing a few more ponies out of this engine? I've seen a few chinese copies of the cosworth manifold on ebay for about £180, but would that do anything worthwhile? I'm not finding much info at all on this engine in it's transit guise, so any pointers would be much appreciated.
I'm guessing an EGR delete, cold air and a decent filter, and loose some exhaust parts for a start, but is there anything else I should consider?
Thanks
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
depends how much you want to spend, a cam upgrade is the next step after sorting a decent exhaust manifold.
whats the intake like? might benefit from a swap to an inlet from a higher output 2.0 if itll fit.
|
| |
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
|
It's hard to tell about the inlet - it's pretty cluttered on that side of the engine.
I've a line on some essentially NOS duratec parts, so I've asked him what manifolds he has.
I'll take a photo tomorrow, that might help.
There's acres on the passenger side for the exhaust, and loosing the cast fannymold, the cat and the long exhaust should help a bit. I'll see how big the throttle body is too, see if I can get a 60mm on there.
I'll see how it goes with the breathing sorted out, and an egr delete, that might be enough to make it fun. If not, then cams may well be the next step.
I think engine bay temps can be an issue for these things in vans, so I'll have to have a look at that too.
|
| |
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,834
Club RR Member Number: 174
Member is Online
|
|
|
|
|
I wouldn't bother and sell it before it blows up or bin the LPG and run on petrol only. Horrendous use of that engine, the LPG absolutely destroys the internals they're just not upto the job.
|
| |
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
|
In what way? I looked at faults with this setup before I bought the thing, and there's a lot about the heat causing coil failure, and the RPM filters dying regularly, but I've not heard anything about actual engine damage - in fact the guy I talked to about owning one said that his had run flawlessly for about 150k of thrashing, and when he pulled the head off to change the gasket, it was pretty pristine. What should I be looking for?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know of several being hammered around on a regular basis with LPG fitted and they haven't had any failures related to it?
They haven't even got a flashlube kit fitted.
|
| |
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
That's good to hear! The closest to a mechanical issue I could find any hint of is the valve seats being too soft, and that's not exactly an incurable problem. I know transit drivers generally like the kind of reliability that means they don''t have to ever bother servicing them, but I reckon with a little bit of looking after these engines are pretty good, and way, way more fun than any diesel tranny I've ever driven. With a little light breathing-on this thing'd be pretty rapid. welshpug the inlets are different, swirl flaps in different places etc. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
swirl flaps?!
i keep thinking it just needs an ebay turbo and the intercooler from a diesel fitting.
bigger injectors, but would need some kind of ecu faffage.
|
| |
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
|
I've been trying not to look at the cheap turbo manifolds for the thing on ebay... or the massive space on the exhaust side of the engine bay.
Apparently there are swirl flaps in the 1.8 & 2.0 manifolds, but I can't find any reference to them on the 2.3. The first thing that came up when I googled "Duratec swirl flaps" was a video called "Swirl flaps of Death", so I'm hoping that I haven't got them!
|
| |
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,834
Club RR Member Number: 174
Member is Online
|
|
|
|
|
Admittedly I only see the broken ones, but burnt valves, seat recession, torched pistons and general heavy wear (valves, guides, rings even more than usual worn).
|
| |
|
|
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
|
I wonder why that is? I thought LPG was a "softer" burn than petrol, so I'd have thought it would be less harsh on the engine, although slightly hotter.
In fairness, I bought this thing so cheap that even if I had to put a recon'd engine in it, I'd still be paying less than for any other tidy rust free LPG transit that I've seen so far.
|
| |
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,834
Club RR Member Number: 174
Member is Online
|
|
Oct 11, 2017 11:49:23 GMT
|
|
It's burns hot and is a 'dry' fuel. They suffer the exact same issues as the forklift engines we do.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2017 21:34:21 GMT
|
|
lpg has a lower calorific value than petrol (ie less energy and less heat) the main reason it can damage valves is it burns slower and this can push more heat into the exhaust. Its not a problem on most conversions as they tend to be on larger engines rarely used at anything approaching full load. The easiest performance boost is to Run it on petrol should give you a 10-15% power boost straight away, lpg does work well with boosting because it has a high knock resistance but you eventually may see the issues mentioned above, especially if it is regularly driven heavily loaded or at high speeds.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2017 22:03:59 GMT
|
Cosworth and Omex do a very nice 2.5 that will drop straight in: www.burtonpower.com/omex-320-bhp-2-5-ford-duratec-rwd-aluminium-raceline-sump-d25vvc071a.htmlOn a MX5 MK3 (basically a Duratec with VVC), the engine did respond quite well to a full exhaust (4-2-1 header, full stainless, 1 sports kat and 1 exhaust damper/ 2.5" diameter). Bit noisy though and for a Transit, I would certainly look into forced induction. I don't know if the ECU can be easily feddled with or bypassed with an standalone ECU. |
| |
 Click picture for more |
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 16:52:24 GMT
|
|
I find the supposed inability of Ford here to build an engine able to run successfully long term on factory fit LPG as rather odd. I know they couldn't build a factory lpg zetec for ages that didn't eat valves too.
In Australia Ford and Holden used to offer LPG only as a factory option for their home built vehicles, some of these would be bound to have ended up in the Northern Territory with no upper speed limit so would have had a hard life at high rpms, every taxi I used to see was LPG only and would clock colossal mileages before being utterly stuffed, I never once heard anybody complain about LPG knackering engines except for the expected valve wear on old leaded engines.
You would have thought some information would interchange....
|
| |
|
|
heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
|
|
|
|
...especially if it is regularly driven heavily loaded or at high speeds. It's a transit, so that'll have been all it's life then, and I have a lead right foot, so the future's not looking too far different for it! I'm going to balance up the cost of head-work against a recon'd engine I think. Cosworth and Omex do a very nice 2.5 that will drop straight in: www.burtonpower.com/omex-320-bhp-2-5-ford-duratec-rwd-aluminium-raceline-sump-d25vvc071a.htmlOn a MX5 MK3 (basically a Duratec with VVC), the engine did respond quite well to a full exhaust (4-2-1 header, full stainless, 1 sports kat and 1 exhaust damper/ 2.5" diameter). Bit noisy though and for a Transit, I would certainly look into forced induction. I don't know if the ECU can be easily feddled with or bypassed with an standalone ECU. A new engine in a three hundred quid van making three hundred brake has a nice cohesiveness to it, though my wallet doesn't have that much stretchiness, more's the pity! 18 grand for an engine does seem a little steep though, especially when you consider what you could make with an LS and a couple of turbos for that money! However, as you & welshpug have pointed out, a scrapyard turbo might not be too far in the future... And would probably mean I could just bolt it on with some cheap chinese fannymoulds, no further messing required. It does seem odd dodgerover - I had a factory-lpg Astra that I bought at nearly 200k, thrashed the titties off of for a fair while, and now it's owned by a friend-of-a-friend, and while still a bit ropy, it's still running pretty much ok. |
| |
|
|
