dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22 
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Jul 26, 2017 14:05:29 GMT
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Hello all. Found the forum while trying to answer some questions i have regarding a possible build i have in mind.
I own a modded subaru forester xt with 340 ponies at the moment and have been set on going for 500bhp in 2018.
Problem is i have this overwhelming urge to go back to a retro ride after many many years of more modern stuff. But it needs to be fast. Very fast.
Given that i would need to put over 20 grand into my forester to hit my goal safely and reliably it begs the question. Could i build my dream capri on the same budget.
After researching and finding bad shells that would need work and good bare shells that have been restored I'm pretty certain i could.
A 1jz gte engine (turbo toyota engine, I'm sure your familiar) can be had for around £1500 (some even come with ecu and other bits for that price) and will take 500bhp all day long on the standard internals. Many will say 700 but i would think 500 would be ample lol.
So another 1500 on the turbo, maybe less if get a good used deal, would just leave some ancillaries to sort out and of course custom exhaust etc.
Suspension i do not have a clue and i need help with big time so as it'll tie in with the questions i really have no clue about we will start there.
What rear axle could i use on a 500bhp capri?
Is there such a thing as a good leaf spring setup or should i be thinking of somehow getting a supra rear end in there? Or something else?
Axle conversion and convert the whole car to coilovers?
These points are where i fall flat on my face, same with others but we will get there lol, because i have never gone down such a Frankenstein route.
I could sit here and spew info all day long like some sort of nerd about subarus and I'm certainly no stranger to the spanners but i simply have never gone in such an extreme direction as this before and have never even owned a capri lol.
I absolutely adore the look of them. Always have but have always felt they lacked that badly needed muscle car performance. Yes yes put a v8 in it lol but no.
The 1jz is an amazing engine and for thw performance it is cheap. To buy a short block ej20 or ej2.1 (stroked) built to run 500bhp is around 5 grand! Then you want different inlet, manifolds, exhaust, rotated turbo kit, gt35 turbo, and just about every single thing replacing on the car. It's carazy.
To get 500bhp from a 1jz you pretty much service it, bolt on the bigger turbo and map it lol.
I appreciate you may be thinking I'm dreaming etc. Thats cool. I'm not here with the car ready to go i get that. What i am trying to do is go into things with my eyes wide open. I want to know what it will take so i can ultimately work out what it will cost.
If it looks to come out to less (which i am hoping) or even the same as forester build then i WILL go the way of the capri. The itch neeeeeds to be scratched lol.
Anyway your probably bored by now so see above for my axle and suspension questions. Thank you for any help offered.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,953
Club RR Member Number: 77
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1jz capri helpmk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Jul 26, 2017 22:48:22 GMT
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If it was me, I'd get a Volvo axle in the back end, decent struts and springs for the front and retain the 2.8i single leaf springs for the back. Volvo axle can be had with a LSD, and take a far bit of abuse as well  Would you be using the Toyota gearbox as well? |
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 26, 2017 22:56:14 GMT
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If it was me, I'd get a Volvo axle in the back end, decent struts and springs for the front and retain the 2.8i single leaf springs for the back. Volvo axle can be had with a LSD, and take a far bit of abuse as well Would you be using the Toyota gearbox as well? [ibr] Thank you mate thats good info. Is there a particular volvo axle in mind? Sharp learning curve here. No knowledge of volvos or these types of conversions. Lsd is definitely a plus lol. Good to know it would take some hammer too. So if starting with a bare shell then i should source some 2.8i leaf springs? Would i just need to uprate the shocks? I'm guessing uprated capri shocks are an off the shelf item? If you could help how would i go about lowering the back end? Is there a coilover option? As for gearbox ive been trying to look at sizes. so far ive seen people say bmw diesel boxes take a lot of stick and ive seen some people using rx8 boxes. I think its fair to say at this point i have curse word all clue lmao. |
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 26, 2017 23:32:47 GMT
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Ok any help with my previous questions greatfully received but about this volvo axle. So a 240 axle yeah? If so what about the issue of ending up with a 5x108 pcd? Is there a way to retain the 4 stud on the rear or even swap the fronts to 5x108 to match? I'm just thinking about wheels and getting them to match lol Also after some more research it seems much more likely i would want to go for a bmw gearbox from any of these.... E46 m3 6speed (2000-2006) E36 m3 6speed (1995-1999) E39 3.0d 5speed (1998-2000) E46 3.0d 5 speed (1999-2005) E46 2.0d 5 speed (2001-2005) The conversion kit for the engine to box is an off the shelf item www.abc-clutch.com/products/1-2JZ-BMW-gearbox-adapter-KIT and although it is pretty expensive its widely accepted that the bmw gearbox will take silly levels of power and daft driving all day long. Worth the money for the reliability. So now i need to figure out how much work it would be to fit one of those boxes into a capri, tunnel fit etc, and what it would take to mate the bmw gearbox to a volvo 240 rear axle. Crikey this stuff is far from simple haha |
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 4:08:48 GMT by dnok
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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1jz capri helpChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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An E46 M3 'box (420G) is close to £1k these days for something that won't crunch. You can get the SMG version cheaper(as in a couple of hundred pounds cheaper) and convert that to a manual in one two ways: 1) Machine the SMG bellhousing to accept the 'manual' detent springs 2) Buy a self-centralising shifter like the CAE item. They are around £750 however but transform the gearshifts alot. I'd be tempted to go with one of the 5 speeds in that case. It will probably be easier to fit into the tunnel as well. BMW didn't use the Getrag 420G in the Z4M due to space constraints ; they built their own smaller gearbox in house in order for it to fit which could be another option for you. EDIT: FWIW the SMG and the manual 'boxes are the same. The only real differences are: - The Bellhousings ; the manual has detent springs for centralising the gear lever in them ; The SMG's are in the tailhousing
- Gear Position sense ; The SMG has a big one on the back of the Gearshift actuator, the manual has a neutral switch where the compression spring would go on an SMG
- Gearshift actuator (as above) is on the back of the SMG whereas the manual has additional shift rods which are available from BMW and now a good time to replace
It *may* open up more gearbox choices and in theory the SMG should see less abuse than the manual ; a computer has made the changes, not someone desparate to set laptimes  . |
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 10:00:14 GMT by ChasR
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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An E46 M3 'box (420G) is close to £1k these days for something that won't crunch. You can get the SMG version cheaper(as in a couple of hundred pounds cheaper) and convert that to a manual in one two ways: 1) Machine the SMG bellhousing to accept the 'manual' detent springs 2) Buy a self-centralising shifter like the CAE item. They are around £750 however but transform the gearshifts alot. I'd be tempted to go with one of the 5 speeds in that case. It will probably be easier to fit into the tunnel as well. BMW didn't use the Getrag 420G in the Z4M due to space constraints ; they built their own smaller gearbox in house in order for it to fit which could be another option for you. Thanks for the input mate. As for saving few hundred quid on the box thats not an issue. Id rather spend the extra to get the better item. That list of bmw's i copy and pasted are the ones the drift guys rate and use in there high power J drift creations using 1jz and 2jz engines. The boxes are near indestructible in their words. Big claim considering the forces and bhp figures in drift cars. To me that makes the boxes perfect. Just a matter of getting it to fit lol. I don't mind if its 5 or 6 speed. 6 would be great but if 5 slots straight in id probably go with it instead. Anybody done it or know how much hassle it would be? |
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 7:29:18 GMT by dnok
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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1jz capri helpChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Jul 27, 2017 10:01:15 GMT
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Just updated my earlier reply ; if if opens up more options  . The 420G is a tough 'box but not indestructable ; they are not the nicest of shifters without work either. But yes, they don't tend to fail. Is this a drift Capri you plan to make? . I think your budget will go well beyond £20k however for that power level and with a number of teething issues. People have paid that much to get a car to 300BHP for ones that originally came with half of the power originally. How much work do you plan to do yourself? |
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 10:06:35 GMT by ChasR
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 27, 2017 10:23:12 GMT
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Just updated my earlier reply ; if if opens up more options . The 420G is a tough 'box but not indestructable ; they are not the nicest of shifters without work either. But yes, they don't tend to fail. Is this a drift Capri you plan to make? . I think your budget will go well beyond £20k however for that power level and with a number of teething issues. People have paid that much to get a car to 300BHP for ones that originally came with half of the power originally. How much work do you plan to do yourself? Most of the work is either myself or a friend so no worries there. I dunno. Been running the numbers all morning and its all stacking up nicely. Gone through the gear ratios of a 2000 e39 530d gearbox against a volvo 240 3.73 rear diff, using a 205 50 15 tyre and the numbers look a good match. Kinda short for the power but tops out in 5th at 140. First gear is around 25mph. A billy bonus is the 530d gearbox is cheap too. Roughly priced up a custom shaft and looks like it'd be anywhere from £150-£300 which isnt breaking the bank either. And mate its not a purpose built drifter. My logic in considering there input was purely based around how hard drifting is on cars. If they can hammer on them then it should be fine in a daily lol. I am rather brutal on cars though it has to be said and lets face it. With a capri of such stature it would be down right rude not to take it to run what you brung drift days and take it to the track so it would see its fair share of insanity with me lol. Thank you for chiming in mate i really appreciate any and all info because before yesterday i knew absolutely jack about what this idea would take to get into fruition lol |
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,644
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Jul 27, 2017 10:42:53 GMT
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2jz-ge na-t conversion (Buy a shonky GS300 for a few hundred quid)
4-500bhp
Keep the auto or run an r154
I've heard of folks buying off the shelf new parts and getting it up and running for £1500-£2500 for 4-500bhp
I'm no expert and have only recently been looking into it mind, so pinch of salt and all that...
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 27, 2017 11:24:56 GMT
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2jz-ge na-t conversion (Buy a shonky GS300 for a few hundred quid) 4-500bhp Keep the auto or run an r154 I've heard of folks buying off the shelf new parts and getting it up and running for £1500-£2500 for 4-500bhp I'm no expert and have only recently been looking into it mind, so pinch of salt and all that... See the r154 costs good money from what i can find. And a cheapo gs300 are all high mileage rats lol. I totally get your thinking though. Besides pistons and i think oil feed? Something like that there is no difference in the 3.0n/a and 3.0 turbo engine internally. Still, for £1500 for a low mileage 1jz with most of the stuff still on the engine, some even with ecu i think the 1jz feels the safer option. I think. Maybe. Lol. Your right though, many ways to skin a cat and on the face of things many of the bits needed to make this work don't actually mount up to crazy money. Its getting interesting for sure. Thanks |
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Bolf
Part of things
Posts: 507
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Jul 27, 2017 12:06:40 GMT
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hi , tuned 1jz vvti , GT35R etc here albeit in a mid 90's Toyota chaser. Great engines and sound awesome. bmw boxes are ok , but watch for the ratios , most of the diesel ones have shorter ratios and massively longer diff ratios compared to most cars , 6th gear 75mph cruising speed will be 3500ish , might be a bit juicy? i've modified my R154 with a 5th from a tacoma , doing 2350 @70mph in 5th and getting 36-38mpg |
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 27, 2017 13:12:43 GMT
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hi , tuned 1jz vvti , GT35R etc here albeit in a mid 90's Toyota chaser. Great engines and sound awesome. bmw boxes are ok , but watch for the ratios , most of the diesel ones have shorter ratios and massively longer diff ratios compared to most cars , 6th gear 75mph cruising speed will be 3500ish , might be a bit juicy? i've modified my R154 with a 5th from a tacoma , doing 2350 @70mph in 5th and getting 36-38mpg Well on the subject of juice i daily a 340bhp subaru and they are about the thirstiest things on earth lol. Well maybe not but mpg not great to say the least lol. BUT having said that 36-38mpg sounds blooming marvelous! What size housing has your 35 got? What bhp you pushing? 500+? So maybe a modded r154 is worth investigating then. I suppose in fairness it makes good sense as i wouldnt need the expensive conversion kit to mate the 1jz to a bmw box, leaving more money to source the 154. Thing is then, will i get the 154 in a capri tunnel? Thank you for a great suggestion. More options to explore |
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 27, 2017 13:22:56 GMT
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Well if these r154 ratios are correct.....
R154, Very, very strong box. About 45kgs. Found in late model turbocharged Supras (7M-GTE). Much larger than the W* series boxes. Known to be able of withstanding up to 600hp.
Ratios: 1st 3.25:1, 2nd 1.95:1, 3rd 1.31:1, 4th 1:1 5th 0.75:1
Then when used on a 23 inch wheel diameter, 205/50-15, with a volvo 240 rear axle and diff with a 3.73 ratio then at the 7500 rpm rev limit i should get 42mph in first and 180mph in fifth lol. WOW!!
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 13:23:37 GMT by dnok
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 28, 2017 10:41:10 GMT
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Ok. Well, never being too old to live and learn i may have well talked myself into using a b204 turbo engine from a saab mated to an omega gearbox. Running the ratio numbers of omega gearing against a 3.73 volvo 240 diff it looks perfect.
From what i have managed to look through so far it looks like the engine and box slips into a capri without much trouble at all. Yes a 1jz would be amazing for the sound and of course bragging rights but my lordy lordy the more i dug the harder it is looking lol.
Not hard to get power from the b204 lump either. And lets be fair, a 400bhp capri aint going to be slow is it lol.
My heart says 1jz but my head says b204. I think for once maybe, just maybe i should listen to my head
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Jul 28, 2017 18:41:59 GMT
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My first thought is buy the best car you can find from the off
It saves time and money in the long term and that way your only spending money on the conversion and not welding/panel/paint etc
I'm currently running a 330d 5 speed BMW box in my 240 Volvo with a 3.9:1 diff and it's useless on a motorway (3200rpm at 60mph) on 17" wheels
All the BMW 5 speed boxes are 1:1 5th gear but the 6 speed are 0.85:1 so better for cruising
The 3.9:1 diff is the most common diff for the 240 Volvo they did do others but good luck finding them
The 940/740 Volvo had more choices the most common being 3.54:1 they are slightly wider to
I'm trying to find a LSD for mine at the moment but there as rare as hens teeth so only option is new and they start at £700
I'm running 500nm of torque and I'm not sure how long the axle will last
I'm currently building a reinforced axle for mine
I recon your best bet would be something like a mustang axle or some other yank axle most have LSD as well
I was looking at going this route myself
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1992 240 Volvo T8
1955 Cadillac
1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold )
1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2
1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec"
1971 VW bay window (work in progress)
1999 Mazda 323F
1987 Jaguar XJ12
All current
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Jul 28, 2017 19:03:34 GMT
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120d zf 6sp bolts up to the adapter and offers .85 and .66 in sixth
I've got a 3.7 diff and 195/50/15 2500 at 70mph
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 28, 2017 20:36:00 GMT
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120d zf 6sp bolts up to the adapter and offers .85 and .66 in sixth I've got a 3.7 diff and 195/50/15 2500 at 70mph Thank you. Could come in handy if i did try stick with the 1jz |
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Jul 28, 2017 20:43:10 GMT
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My first thought is buy the best car you can find from the off It saves time and money in the long term and that way your only spending money on the conversion and not welding/panel/paint etc I'm currently running a 330d 5 speed BMW box in my 240 Volvo with a 3.9:1 diff and it's useless on a motorway (3200rpm at 60mph) on 17" wheels All the BMW 5 speed boxes are 1:1 5th gear but the 6 speed are 0.85:1 so better for cruising The 3.9:1 diff is the most common diff for the 240 Volvo they did do others but good luck finding them The 940/740 Volvo had more choices the most common being 3.54:1 they are slightly wider to I'm trying to find a LSD for mine at the moment but there as rare as hens teeth so only option is new and they start at £700 I'm running 500nm of torque and I'm not sure how long the axle will last I'm currently building a reinforced axle for mine I recon your best bet would be something like a mustang axle or some other yank axle most have LSD as well I was looking at going this route myself Welding, time and paint not a problem so given the crazy price of capris these days I'll probably start with the best rough one i can find lol. Thanks for the info on the bmw box with that diff. Definitely one combination to avoid i would say. And thank you for the info on the 940 and 740. That would certainly make a better diff ratio. I'm looking at the moment trying to find out just how much wider they are because although many would think it sacrilege i am open to the idea of rear flares and a wider rear stance. I'll bare in mind what you have said however and have a look about at what a yank axle may run me. I do however at this point feel the 1jz maybe a bite too far and am heavily leaning towards the b204 and omega box combo Thanks for the input, very helpful |
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dnok
Part of things
Posts: 22
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Does anybody know how much wider a 740 axle would be than a 240 axle? Seems that the 740 maybe easier to source. Also is there any difference between a 740 manual and 740 auto rear axle and diff?
I understand the 740 axle is wider than a 240 one but cannot find by how much.
If i was prepared to run a wider rear end i.e arch pull or flares could the 740 be fitted to a Capri.
I know these questions probably seem daft to some of you but i have zero knowledge about these cars as of yet. Thank you.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:59:24 GMT
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