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Hello. I want to swap the engine of a 2105/7 and make a sleeper. I have already chosen an engine and gearbox- Volvo B5204T5 and GS-53DZ(E60 diesel) using a KLRacing adapter. But I have some questions about the rest of the car- 1.Will I need to upgrade the wheel hubs/bearings? The car was made for a top speed of 155km/h and an 80hp engine in its top variant.
2. Can I swap the wheel hubs for a 5-bolt pattern? Reasons being- wheel choice and also brake upgrade(the stock brake rotors aren't identical to most italian ones-the space from the wheel to the rotor is much bigger on the lada)
3. Which areas would need to be strengthened and with how thick metal-1,2,3,5mm?
I have a 2105 1300S, but I plan on only restoring it, and buying another one on which to experiment.
Sorry for any mistakes, I am from Bulgaria.
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I know about him. But I was hoping for advice from more than one person.
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Sounds like a great project! Why did you choose diesel? Not criticising I am just curious.
Upgrades... I don't know Ladas very well, but have done hub and brake conversions on other cars. If wheel and rotor choices are better with different hubs then it is definitely worth investigating.
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Sounds like a great project! Why did you choose diesel? Not criticising I am just curious. It's just the gearbox that's from a diesel. I guess it's because they're tough and quite plentiful, and when married to the 5-cyl Volvo T5 engine makes it RWD. Sounds like a really cool project!
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Jul 15, 2017 10:18:34 GMT
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Sounds like a great project! Why did you choose diesel? Not criticising I am just curious. It's just the gearbox that's from a diesel. I guess it's because they're tough and quite plentiful, and when married to the 5-cyl Volvo T5 engine makes it RWD. Sounds like a really cool project! Aahh. I'm not an encyclopedia of engine and box numbers lol cheers for the clarification. Dizzle box will make for interesting ratios and top end speeds!
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Jul 15, 2017 10:51:34 GMT
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not really, its the axle ratio that seals the deal, and wheel size.
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Jul 15, 2017 14:25:06 GMT
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The GS6-53DZ is rated at 530Nm torque and there are quite a lot of e46s 330d here. It costs around 100€. KLRacing's site says the angle of gasoline boxes is a bit different, so it's either this, or an m20 gearbox. Some more info about the GS6-53(in russian) :https://www.bimmerfest.ru/korobka-peredach-gs6-53/
And the Volvo engine is around 500€ Adapter plate+mounting hardware around 300€
Shell with minimal rust(and with documents) 500+€
The "with documents" part is because many of these cars are used as workhorses without registration so old people don't have to pay taxes. There are a few examples which look lie they don't have rust, but they are without plates and it's unknow whether the documents from traffic police are present or lost.
But I am still in planning phase. And I will have to sort out mine first - every outer panel has holes in it, but the rest seems fine.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:23:04 GMT
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How similar are E30 and E36/5(compact) rear suspensions?
Russians make independent rear suspension ladas using whole E30 rear suspension.
The E36/5 uses a different rear suspension from the regular E36 which is said to be identical to the E30's.
Problem is that E30 are getting quite rare, while there's tons of E36/5. So that's why I am asking, also the E36/5 uses 5x120 and not 4x100, and is also newer, and there are more parts.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:02:33 GMT
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compact is the same diff iirc, possibly same shafts.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 15, 2017 23:39:15 GMT
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you could fit an e30 rear subframe, but it kinda defies the point of building a lada in the first place. a huge part of the character and handling characteristics of these little cars is that they're a 5 link live axle from the factory. as soon as you start swapping that out, and the huge amount of shell mods it requires, you may as well just start with a bigger/stronger/better car, like a e30 or volvo, that you wont have to spend years re-engineering for it to take the increased power and larger components. it certainly wouldnt be any kind of sleeper anymore if you did a e30 rear end, as the track is a lot wider so would need wide arching.i know the russians love to try and outdo each other with the biggest motor they can put in them, but i really think anyone who does that is missing the point.
ladas are one of those cars that fall into the same sort of category as a mk2 escort or a chevette. with fairly basic mods theyll take something up to a 2L N/A motor and associated running gear, running in the 150-200hp bracket quite nicely without having to add a lot of weight beefing everything up. they're a very light shell to start with, pretty much the lightest RWD production car shell with a normal F-R layout and 'proper' suspension. you can drive em like a hooligan and they're balanced and fun. once you go over that you're into a battle of attrition, that becomes increasingly pointless the further you go. every bit of power you add means needing to add more weight to stop the rest of the car breaking around your drivetrain, and you very quickly reach a point where you'd have been better of building a conventional chassis or a tubeframe and just draping the lada shell over it. staying within the limits of what a stock shell can do (or a stock shell with basic strength/stiffening mods) gives a car thats just as much fun, but costs significantly less and doesnt take years to build. if i were to build another, id be looking at choosing components based on weight, to up the power to weight ratio that way. light wheels, an engine and box package thats as heavy on the ally and light on the cast iron as possible, and removing unnecessary stuff. 200bhp/ton is pretty easy even with a full interior.
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So a 2.0 twinc on a pair of 45's is ideal then!
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Last Edit: Jul 16, 2017 6:46:03 GMT by welshpug
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So a 2.0 twinc on a pair of 45's is ideal then! If only I could find one... It turns out the FWD injection models have problems with the starter in RWD application, and also there are no 5 speed 131 gearboxes. And even then, if something breaks it will be PIA to get a replacement. BMW gearboxes are everywhere, Volvo Whiteblock engines too, and there are more E36s than E46s,E60s,E90s(x25D and up) and Volvo S60/80 2.0T combined. Basically enough parts for hundrends of whiteblock-powered Ladas.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 16, 2017 10:17:38 GMT
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fiat twins are amazing engine for the time, but realistically now they're old tech, and getting quite expensive these days. they have stuff like nitrided cranks so a rebuild is remortgage time too. its also plums that they 'bolt stright in' without modifying stuff. you can fit a FWD one, you need the gearbox from a pushrod (i.e. non-twincam) rwd fiat, as the starter is on the other side but they're hard to find. i recently sold one to someone for exactly that conversion.
in terms of cost vs. ease of finding,id go for something like a zetec/duratec with a type 9, a vauxhall redtop with a manta box, a bmw 318IS motor and box, or a complete 1800 mx5 engine and box package. all are relatively light 4 pot setups with around 150hp or more naturally aspirated, easy to fit and wire and have strong aftermarket for parts and upgrades.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:12:51 GMT
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Do Zetec/Duratec bolt straight on a Type 9/MT75? Because if it requires an adaptor plate, might as well stick to volvo engine, bmw gearbox. The 2.0T is 180hp and it could be upgraded to a 2.4T(200+hp), or if money is a problem when I go to get an engine, a 2.4 n/a (140hp) is an option too. From what I have read, the bolt pattern and block dimensions are the same. So when the time comes, only the engine can be swapped, without the need of new gearbox/adapter plate.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 16, 2017 16:16:16 GMT
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yes zetec/duratec bolt straight up to a type 9, with a few caveats, mostly regarding starter. forget about fitting a mt75 into a lada without chopping half the car up. way to big a box to fit without major works.
which gearbox to use is actually a much bigger consideration than you think- most don't fit into the lada tunnel without pretty serious work- I'm talking a lot more than moving the shifter hole. even the fiat box on the back of a twincam requires the entire tunnel to be cut out and moved up 2-3". you need a 'long and thin' rather than 'short and squat' box for it to fit without chopping the entire tunnel out- think type 9, manta box, or mx5 box rather than the bmw type. the shifter is very forward on a lada box, think transit type 9 style, not on the tailshaft. not necessarily a problem to fit a tailshift type box, as it can go back quite a bit and still be in a sensible place.
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