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Jan 13, 2017 14:52:12 GMT
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On the factory LET the stock exhaust manifold and inlet manifold are really bad at high flow rates. for benefit of this thread, the turbo is integrated into the exhaust manifold to get the turbine as close as possible to the exhaust ports, primarily to delete turbo lag. for the late 80s is pretty shrewd OEM setup, but as you say it does seem to cap standard engines at 300bhp
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Last Edit: Jan 13, 2017 14:53:41 GMT by darrenh
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Jan 13, 2017 19:21:46 GMT
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I have a couple of friends that have XE engines in their Fords - both with Turbos fitted. One is approx 550bhp without NOS and the other is around 750hp without NOS. First one runs 10's and the other runs low 8's on the 1/4! Got links? *n
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Top grammar tips! Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Jan 14, 2017 21:56:51 GMT
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you also could not just plop some 16v pistons in an 8valve, the 20XE rods are much stronger than 8valve versions, and 20XE pistons were forged and have requisite cutouts for valve clearance. there is also a small oil restrictor at the back of the 20XE block which is not present the 8v. the 8v crank has only 6 bolt flywheel, and is smaller, so already on the back foot for upgrades ( all irrelevant really, nobody would be mad enough to try and 16v convert an 8v engine) 20XE were fitted into caterhams in RWD layout, adapted to ford box from memory. SBD sell rear wheel drive 20XE manifold but would still need adapting, vehicle dependant Well I stand corrected, it just goes to prove you shouldn't believe everything you're told! But I was, briefly, considering 16v converting the 8v motor in my Toledo 6 bolt flywheel and all. I found that to marry the Omega box to the 8v motor successfully, I needed the thicker (than a Cavalier one) Carlton flywheel (which I duly lightened, it's MASSIVE) which only comes as a 6 bolter. I didn't know about the oil restrictor but i'm sure it could be got round. when you say the crank is smaller on the 8v, is that in journal diameter? Not that it matters much as I have more or less dropped that idea. Then I considered the Saab motor and actually bought a donor car (it was super cheap and has already made a good profit on body parts sold) but it has complications around the engine mounts where the Vaux motor has them built into the block for RWD apps. And more problems with turbo plumbing and sump in my rather small and cramped engine bay. So I have now more or less settled on a 2000cc Turbo Vauxhall motor from a 2003 Astra Turbo (if I can persuade my son in law to let me have it!) Most of my pre adapted parts will bolt to this engine (mounts, sump, water plumbing etc) leaving only the looming, exhaust downpipe and possibly a flywheel mod to complete it (a few days at most) and take my power output from 140ish as it currently is with the 8valver to 200 or more in one hit. I've seen the Caterham manifold and a couple of offerings from Ashley and they are all of the 4>1 type, great for revs but lousy for the famous torque that I would wish to preserve. They also wouldn't fit my car by a country mile! The C20XE converted Dolomites that I have knowledge of all have had to have bespoke and expensive manifolds built especially for them. Steve PS, "Nobody would be mad enough to try and 16v convert an 8v engine" Isn't that exactly what Cosworth/Vauxhall did to produce the C20XE?
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Last Edit: Jan 14, 2017 22:21:35 GMT by carledo
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Jan 14, 2017 23:22:34 GMT
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*Think* you can now get an adaptor plate for the RX8 6sp box too now. OT, but isn't the RX8 6 speeder basically the same box as the Lexus IS200 with a different bell housing? Just curious why you don't seem to see off the shelf adapter plates for the latter given they tend to be a bit more readily available, cheaper and there's a wider selection of Toyota RWD friction plates to choose from.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:43:07 GMT
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*Think* you can now get an adaptor plate for the RX8 6sp box too now. OT, but isn't the RX8 6 speeder basically the same box as the Lexus IS200 with a different bell housing? Just curious why you don't seem to see off the shelf adapter plates for the latter given they tend to be a bit more readily available, cheaper and there's a wider selection of Toyota RWD friction plates to choose from. Rx8 boxes are £100-ish a piece and easy to find. *n
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Top grammar tips! Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Jan 15, 2017 10:55:59 GMT
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I have a couple of friends that have XE engines in their Fords - both with Turbos fitted. One is approx 550bhp without NOS and the other is around 750hp without NOS. First one runs 10's and the other runs low 8's on the 1/4! Got links? *n I am useless with links whilst on a tablet but to see the 750hp Escort, subscribe to mk1kieran on you tube (His son) Then you can watch his Dad Kev's mk1 Escort running 8's! (XE powered) I have no doubt my other pal Brett will also feature on his you tube page.. Its a white 105e anglia with twin blue Shelby style stripes up n over. Enjoy
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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Jan 15, 2017 12:18:47 GMT
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You can use the gearboxes from Omegas with OHC engines, bolt right up to the XE\LET. Also Manta 1.8 sumps and engine mounts make them bolt-on in Manta\Ascona, and i think Kadett C, but seems most people prefer other mounts, that turn the engine upright instead of slightly slanted. There were also Getrag 240 gearboxes with the OHC bolt pattern, but those are stupid money for what they are.
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2017 12:20:13 GMT by Deleted
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Jan 15, 2017 16:36:29 GMT
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when you say the crank is smaller on the 8v, is that in journal diameter? major dimensions of the crank are the same, sorry if i mislead with that, if you re-read i think (and hope) i actually said the flywheel is smaller. reduction in surface area plus increasing the power and torque through it by 15% (for non turbo) 50% (for turbo) thats what i meant by on the back foot. sounds like on ok solution to your conversion though, its specific case by case and at the discretion of the guy at the end of the spanners! PS, "Nobody would be mad enough to try and 16v convert an 8v engine" Isn't that exactly what Cosworth/Vauxhall did to produce the C20XE? well the 20SEH and a 20XE have no shared components other than the oil pump ring gear, so...
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2017 17:22:38 GMT by darrenh
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Jan 15, 2017 16:40:00 GMT
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p.s heres a picture of a an 8v rod next to a 16v rod. ignoring the 8v is press fit gudgeon and 16v is floating, check out how narrow the little end is. scary thing is they used the 8v type in the later 16v ecotec engines
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2017 16:43:38 GMT by darrenh
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carmad
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,000
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Jan 15, 2017 19:19:09 GMT
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you can use and ecotec block with red top head and management for a very strong engine
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Jan 15, 2017 21:09:42 GMT
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p.s heres a picture of a an 8v rod next to a 16v rod. ignoring the 8v is press fit gudgeon and 16v is floating, check out how narrow the little end is. scary thing is they used the 8v type in the later 16v ecotec engines Seems to me the differences are small enough to make it possible! If the big end journals are the same size I could use the rods and forged Redtop pistons with an 8v block and balanced crank, or even ecotec rods and pistons. I have a 2.2 Ecotec going into my Sprint at the moment, that is 147bhp out of the box, the 8v rods can't be that weak! Sure if I was after 300bhp, it would not pay to start where I am. But I am not that ambitious (or rich), I will be more than happy with 200 in my 760kg car, it's pretty quick with 140! Of course if you can make any suggestions as to how to improve the 8v to 180 or so, that would be even better. I have a Courtenaysport big valve head and a fast road cam, plus an adjustable fuel pressure reg, a free flow 2.5" exhaust and what is alleged to be a 15% uprated Cav SRi ECU (not sure I believe this). I'm guessing SEH flat top pistons would help and maybe a 4 branch (again this would have to be bespoke but I got the makings from Ashley a couple of years ago), then when I have finished all my mods a PROPER remap. Otherwise it looks like the Astra Turbo lump would be my best bet. But I REALLY like the 8v motor, it's ridiculously simple, and given regular oil changes, seems unbreakable, I know of more than a few (in taxis) that have exceeded half a million miles. Steve
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Jan 16, 2017 15:29:03 GMT
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I have a 2.2 Ecotec going into my Sprint at the moment, that is 147bhp out of the box, the 8v rods can't be that weak! that 147bhp alloy 2.2 is a different animal. the rods in question were used on 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 iron block ecotecs. 2.2 version was a long throw crank (used in early vectras and frontera) both of which are renowned for rod failures. with the bolt on mods you suggest it would by in the region of 20XE power, on the 8v. it really takes open throttles (carbs or ITB) to nudge north of that.
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Last Edit: Jan 16, 2017 15:29:32 GMT by darrenh
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Jan 16, 2017 17:14:29 GMT
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I’ve recently fitted a C20XE from scratch (complete in fwd format in an astra) into my escort mk2, and came across many snags, challenges and so made my own fixes along the way. I’d be happy to help If you have any specific questions that your stuck on. My general setup is as follows Early c20XE with Coscast head and MAHLE forged pistons I stripped the engine and completely rebuilt it, relatively OEM but blueprinted with a few modifications – ARP’s, cometic head gasket, king competition bearings, balanced rods, steel geared oil pump etc Head mods needed: Dizzy mount cut off the rear of the head Camshaft cut and oil gallery plugged Camshaft hole blocked with suitable machined bung Small oil feed to lubricate dizzy plugged Rear coolant outlet modified to fit close to bulkhead Oil breather mod Bottom end: Manta cast sump (I modified mine slightly as I was running the engine upright) Modified pickup pipe to suit (see SBD for measurements) Other stuff: Upright Bellhousing to type 9 Ford-XE spigot bearing You can use a pinto clutch, but it’s a little small on the diameter, I'm using an AP paddle clutch made for a ford spline XE flywheel setup Type-9 with long first gear kit Bike carbs – a word of warning, be careful using carb manifolds, a lot don’t have the water outlet that’s on the standard inlet going down to the waterpump. This pipe is very important and critical to the correct flow of coolant around the engine, I wouldn’t use a manifold that encourages this to be blocked off. Megajolt ignition system Chassis mount engine mount kit That’s pretty much it from what I can remember any questions let me know!
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Why you always bring me junk!
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voodoo57
Club Retro Rides Member
That's not 2 metres! come a little...Closer!
Posts: 2,757
Club RR Member Number: 137
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Apr 22, 2017 14:54:08 GMT
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I think i will be giving you a shout soon? Got most of my bits for the mk2, just being messed around regarding the exhaust manifold. I am running bike carbs with the water pipe attached, pics to follow next week!
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Do i detect a redtop cavalier estate being in your thoughts then PP? ☺
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Apr 23, 2017 12:20:58 GMT
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It was a great engine when it came out, now I'd plump for a B2*4 Saab motor, they're more powerful out of the box, easy to tune and if you are a tinkerer you can get hold of T5 or T7 (if you go for a B2*5) suite and do self mapping. The bellhousing pattern is standard GM so all the petrol omega gearboxes fit and work, as do the F series FWD 'boxes.
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Apr 23, 2017 22:15:47 GMT
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Do i detect a redtop cavalier estate being in your thoughts then PP? ☺ Well i must admit that i was considering it as i was offered one. However it turned out to be a 2.2 litre engine from an Omega with a suspected head gasket failiure, coupled to an auto tranny which the guy said slips out of gear from time to time. Anyway, he wanted £250 for this little lot, and i had to drag it out of the Omega myself. I left it... I quite like the original engine i've got in the car anyway!
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Apr 24, 2017 22:34:45 GMT
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I bought a whole 2.2 Omega Auto, taxed and tested for £400 and drove it for 5 months till the tax ran out then pulled the unit to put in my Dolly Sprint. 70k on the clock and faultless save for a warped front disc which didn't exactly worry me much! After i'd taken everything I wanted, Including every scrap of wire, I got £100 for the alloys and another £75 for the shell with cat! You did well to leave that one alone! But a Redtop Cav estate has massive appeal in my eyes, Even an 8v SRi (with progressive twin plenum) would be nice! Been looking a long time for a CavII Estate for the right money myself!
Steve
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