heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Dec 13, 2016 23:04:42 GMT
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Hi all. How's tricks?
I'm thinking about trying to loose the sunroof in my capri. I don't use it, it leaks, you can't get decent seals for it, and like a lot of the ret of the car, there's a fair bit of rust going on... I know I could search for a non-sunroof roof form a scrapper, but that seems likely to be a big job, and cost a lot. I reckon that I could make up a few ribs to hold the skin in shape as I tack the new panel in, and give it strength in general. The headlining could come later (and it can't be worse than the mouse-chewed one that's in it), that's not my biggest concern, and I'm not looking for a concourse finish - it'd look right out of place, considering the rest of the car looks like it lost a fight with a rusty combine harvester. If it doesn't leak, rust, or get jammed half open I'll be happy, and if it saves a few KG then all the better.
So, has anyone attempted this, on anything? Am I lining myself up for an utter ballache, or is it actually as simple as I'm making it sound? All tips, thoughts, ideas, and especially photos, greatly received!
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Depends how good you are :-)
I can't really remember how flat the roof is on a capri but I'm guessing you will have to wheel a bit of a CROWN into it if you want to avoid alot of filler work.
Maybe you could try and Joggle a lap joint in and plug weld rather than seam weld.. Might get less distortion that way..
Is there any roof bows in it already or does the sunroof just 'float' in the middle of the skin on these?
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swapping a roof on a mk1 golf has taken about 3 days and probably cost about £200 including the donor roof if you can do it yourself, £1k plus for labour if you pay someone to do it. mate of mine has plated a mk1 rocco roof and tbh you can see where its been done, luckily its a track car
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Dec 14, 2016 13:12:55 GMT
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I know panels are easier to get for a Mini but I bonded a fibreglass skin over the the original and lost the join in the gutters, is there anyone making or prepared to make a fibreglass skin or are they around I wonder?
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Dec 14, 2016 18:28:12 GMT
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I'm about to do this on my Capri. I've go a new roof skin, but I'd think it wouldn't be too much to make a filler panel up.
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heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Dec 14, 2016 20:49:00 GMT
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saabsled, is that a panel cut off a scrapper, or is it a replacement panel? And could you take a photo up into the roof's structure please? I didn't think it would be too tricky from looking at the existing gear that's there. I've thought of using the sunroof skin, and a strip underneath then plug welding, as you say slater that'd distort less hopefully. I don't think that anyone makes a fibreglass one zoompod, I'd be all over that if they did. The rest of the thing's slowly becoming more and more fibreglass as bits rust off, so that'd be in keeping. It's a car-led lightening program, not decay, honest! I'm not massively bothered if it's a bit visible guz, the thing's ratty as a ratty thing that's bee lying in a drain and occasionally being kicked by urchins as it is, so that's not a bit worry. not the modern kind of ratty either - ratty in the way that 80s Fords excel at.
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longman
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 506
Club RR Member Number: 3
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Dec 14, 2016 21:01:04 GMT
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there used to be a sunroof here.. the bodyshop made an insert on an english wheel , you cant tell now.. Wasnt cheap getting it done though..
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Paul 98 500 SL 86 911 Carrera/sold 23 Octavia Phev
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Dec 14, 2016 21:29:37 GMT
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could you just tiger seal a strip in, or spot weld, to accept the trimmed sunroof panel and bond it in ? my roof was rotten along the gutter so made sense to get rid of the lot in one shot, can't tell its been done and i've now got a factory sunroof which was a rare option afaik
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Dec 14, 2016 21:57:38 GMT
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You will need to wheel your panel to put a little shape into it. You are best to buttweld the panel in place (panels side by side with a 1mm gap) when you weld the metalwork will shrink and distort. Once welded in place grind the welds down on both sides of the panel and then panel beat the welds using a hammer and dolly, by doing this you are stretching the metal and reversing the shrinking. It's hard work and you must not over do it because the weld can crack (if mig welded). When shaping up with body filler spread it far and wide and use a long rubbing down block and most of all be patient.
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Dec 15, 2016 10:11:02 GMT
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Why not use the existing sunroof as the panel to weld in as it'd already be the right profile.
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Dec 15, 2016 11:43:46 GMT
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I've plated over sunroof holes a couple of times - on racing or rally cars, glass sunroofs are not permitted (steel is OK though, so long as it stays closed).
"industrial chic" version:
A flat steel cover panel, same shape as the sunroof with an extra 1" margin all round and radiused corners, plus about 100 pop-rivets, has usually done the trick :-) Always bedded on a generous bead of mastic and with another smear over the rivets to prevent any leakage. Foam sheet stuck onto the inside to prevent condensation (always annoying when it drips down your neck). Did the job, but looked a bit crude even when painted the same colour as the rest of the roof.
"cheated" version:
Removed glass, replaced with medium-density polyethylene sheet cut to same shape, original hinges and clamps plus a handful of countersunk screws (the MDPE of course was more flexible than the original slightly curved glass, so it needed the screws to get it to take the correct shape). Looked horrible. Don't remember it leaking significantly, but we wrote the shell off on its first outing so that didn't matter too much!!!
"tried hard but no cigar" version:
Sunroof and frame removed and edge of hole 'lipped' with joggling tool, plus plug holes punched through for MIG spot welding. New plate rolled to correct curve and trimmed to fit into the 'ledge', then plug welded all round. Dressed flat, filled and painted. Smooth finish, but the roof inevitably rippled slightly here and there so you could see it had been done. Didn't leak a drop.
TBH I think it's very hard indeed to get a pukka finish that looks as if you never had a sunroof in the first place, unless you replace the whole roof skin. If it's a factory sunroof, the roof skin might have a 'rim' rolled in around the hole, which helps give the roof its shape - in that case you should be able to weld a plate in without it distorting the rest of the roof, but you will get distortion of the infill panel itself (some of which, at least, you can flatten and fill).
Good luck - suggest you take some photos before and after, and post them on here!
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Dec 15, 2016 11:46:44 GMT
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pull the felt seal off of your sunroof, mask roof up, fill entire groove with polyurethane seam sealant
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Dec 15, 2016 18:05:49 GMT
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pull the felt seal off of your sunroof, mask room up, fill entire car with polyurethane seam sealant
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Dec 15, 2016 19:29:59 GMT
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Last Edit: Dec 15, 2016 19:31:04 GMT by saabsled
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Dec 15, 2016 19:30:25 GMT
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It is a big job no matter how you do it.
Since I suspect that the finer points of metal finishing elude your current skill set, (apologies if I am wrong) I would advise a donor panel rather than trying to fabricate and butt-weld an insert.
The best way to harvest the panel from the donor is to grind off from the backside using a 40 grit flap-wheel(after decapitating the donor vehicle) so that you end up with a panel that does not have a bunch of holes where you drilled out spot-welds. Breaking the spot-welds is also going to distort the donor panel and you end up with rather large holes to fill in as puddle-welds.
Second option would be to just use the appropriate section of the donor panel. Trim the roof panel on the car to whatever size you want, place the donor over the hole and scribe from inside the car. Then proceed to weld in the repair panel stopping to hammer the distortion out as it occurs. Might want to google up"shrinking disc" while you are at it.
Going full ghetto, I would get a piece of insulating foam in the hole and use a sanding board to get the the roof curvature just right. Then I would lay out a big piece of fiberglass cloth that goes about a foot either side of the hole. Finish with as much filler as it takes to look good.
Edit:
I love my E-wheel, but if there is one thing I have learned is that if I can find a solution that does not require it's use, go for it. The e-wheel is a lot of work and often involves making practice scrap before you get your part.
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Last Edit: Dec 15, 2016 19:33:26 GMT by bjornagn
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Dec 15, 2016 19:32:48 GMT
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saabsled, is that a panel cut off a scrapper, or is it a replacement panel? And could you take a photo up into the roof's structure please? I didn't think it would be too tricky from looking at the existing gear that's there. I've thought of using the sunroof skin, and a strip underneath then plug welding, as you say slater that'd distort less hopefully. I don't think that anyone makes a fibreglass one zoompod, I'd be all over that if they did. The rest of the thing's slowly becoming more and more fibreglass as bits rust off, so that'd be in keeping. It's a car-led lightening program, not decay, honest! I'm not massively bothered if it's a bit visible guz, the thing's ratty as a ratty thing that's bee lying in a drain and occasionally being kicked by urchins as it is, so that's not a bit worry. not the modern kind of ratty either - ratty in the way that 80s Fords excel at. It's a replacement panel. It fits along the roof gutters, & around the 'screen frames.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:51:34 GMT
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I've thought about this on my mk3 Astra - it's finding a non sunroof model in the scrapyard, they're getting thin on the ground now, can't imagine you'd ever find a Capri breaker. I would just drill out the spotwelds and weld the new one in, are Capris gutter type? Easiest way is to pay someone to weld a panel in!
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barty
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,088
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Dec 16, 2016 12:13:01 GMT
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had a mk1 escort a while ago and the only real way to do it is to replace the whole roof. If you try to just "bung" something in the whole and weld/fill it then i bet in a while you will find signs of it showing through. I know its gonna be had to find a replacement roof but I'm sure theres one out there
Standing ready to be bombarded with all the ...well ive patched one before lol
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Dec 16, 2016 16:08:56 GMT
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sunroof seals are never perfect, that's why you have sunroof gutter/drains, but on old fords these go straight into the sill...
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'98 e36 316i lux '97 mx5 harvard '87 Saab 900 T16s
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Dec 16, 2016 20:46:56 GMT
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i've seen a tidy repair on a bootlid (odd curves - like a sunroof ) using the skin from a scrap bonnet. Something to think about?
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