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Oct 24, 2016 10:33:24 GMT
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Having laid my hands on a decent M51 out of an Omega to go in my 110 I have a few questions which I hope someone here may be able to provide the answers too.
At present it's still in the car, hence the questions as I'm hoping to have everything together to do a fairly quickly swop rather than have to work it all out over a period of months...
First up, being an Omega engine it had a front bowl sump, whilst a rear bowl would be more suitable for the Land Rover application.
Obviously the sump itself is different, but what's required for the oil pump?
From what I can see its driven off the front of the crank and has different pickups for the different sumps, is my thinking correct?
Does anyone have a rear bowl sump/pickup they'd swop for a front bowl one?
Also, I'm after the PCD of the flywheel bolts, and the centre bore, and finally is there anywhere I could source any sort of drawing -CAD or otherwise- of the bellhousing pattern?
Any information greatly appreciated.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:36:10 GMT
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no idea of the specific details you've asked about, but you probably want to look at P38 TD parts, as they used an M51.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,161
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Oct 24, 2016 15:59:13 GMT
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If the M51 engine ever found it's way into a E36 (3 series) then that engine should have a rear bowl sump, E36's have rack and pinion steering, bigger BMW's of the same age have steering boxes.
Failing that, perhaps a M50/52 sump and oil pick up from a E36 may fit. And I may have these items for sale (M52 only)........!
If the DMF is the same for M51 and M52 then I can let you know the PCD (also got a good DMF for sale too!).
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Oct 24, 2016 17:45:18 GMT
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yup, E36 325 TDS is an M51
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,161
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Oct 24, 2016 18:39:34 GMT
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yup, E36 325 TDS is an M51 Bit of a rare car in the UK I think? Maybe MOBILE.DE may be a better bet. |
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Oct 24, 2016 19:03:18 GMT
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i know three guys with one, cant be that rare!
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Oct 24, 2016 19:04:47 GMT
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320 registered apparently.
73 325 td's also.
e39 also used the m51d25 over a rack.
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Last Edit: Oct 24, 2016 19:07:58 GMT by welshpug
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Oct 24, 2016 20:28:49 GMT
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The plan is to mate it up to a V8 pattern ZF 4HP22 autobox.
I've now discovered the PCD of the crank is 8x72mm, which will allow me to draw up an adapter between crank and flex plate, whilst I've also fallen upon a BMW box which I can borrow to measure up and draw out against the V8 bellhousing I've already drawn up.
Just need to work out if I need complete oil pump or just a pickup pipe to go with a rear bowl sump.
Progress!!!
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Oct 24, 2016 20:45:38 GMT
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why not use the BMW's ZF box?
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Oct 24, 2016 21:03:05 GMT
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The plan is to mate it up to a V8 pattern ZF 4HP22 autobox. I've now discovered the PCD of the crank is 8x72mm, which will allow me to draw up an adapter between crank and flex plate, whilst I've also fallen upon a BMW box which I can borrow to measure up and draw out against the V8 bellhousing I've already drawn up. Just need to work out if I need complete oil pump or just a pickup pipe to go with a rear bowl sump. Progress!!! 99% it will just be the pickup pipe, thats the case when you swap sumps over between the m52 engines. You will also need to dipstick pipe too. |
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Oct 24, 2016 21:03:42 GMT
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If the M51 engine ever found it's way into a E36 (3 series) then that engine should have a rear bowl sump, E36's have rack and pinion steering, bigger BMW's of the same age have steering boxes. Failing that, perhaps a M50/52 sump and oil pick up from a E36 may fit. And I may have these items for sale (M52 only)........! If the DMF is the same for M51 and M52 then I can let you know the PCD (also got a good DMF for sale too!). Looks like it's just the sump, dipstick and pickup pipe that are different. How much would you charge for the M52 stuff? why not use the BMW's ZF box? Because the Omega has a fairly naff GM box in it, also the V8 variant of the ZF has the larger Torque converter and lockup clutch. |
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Oct 25, 2016 15:51:31 GMT
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yeah but the bmw zf goes straight on...
i doubt the lockup speed of a v8 would be particularly ideal for the m51 either.
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Oct 25, 2016 16:56:51 GMT
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m52 and m51 sumps are different.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,161
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Oct 25, 2016 17:17:11 GMT
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m52 and m51 sumps are different. Yes, Real OEM Bmw does show differences, but the bolt pattern looks the same and if the oil pick up pipe has to be altered, then maybe it'll work....Best option is the E36 M51 bits though! Real OEM BMW is a good source for checking parts, if you haven't already used it. |
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,161
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Oct 25, 2016 17:19:31 GMT
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Just a crazy thought, will the sump fit backwards?  You'll still have to modify (or buy) the pick up pipe.... |
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Last Edit: Oct 25, 2016 17:20:35 GMT by andyborris
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Oct 25, 2016 17:55:14 GMT
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yeah but the bmw zf goes straight on... i doubt the lockup speed of a v8 would be particularly ideal for the m51 either. Surprisingly the 3.9 V8 and M51 have quite similar power/torque curves, peak torque on both is 2200rpm, so the standard lockup speed should be spot on, along with the benefit of the bigger lockup clutch. m52 and m51 sumps are different. Yes, Real OEM Bmw does show differences, but the bolt pattern looks the same and if the oil pick up pipe has to be altered, then maybe it'll work....Best option is the E36 M51 bits though! Real OEM BMW is a good source for checking parts, if you haven't already used it. Wasn't something I was aware of, but useful for future reference. I've found a sump and pickup pipe from an M51 on ebay so they'll probably be the way forward. Just a crazy thought, will the sump fit backwards? You'll still have to modify (or buy) the pick up pipe.... Short answer is no, which is unfortunate as it would make things much easier. |
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,161
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Oct 25, 2016 18:02:08 GMT
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I've found a sump and pickup pipe from an M51 on ebay so they'll probably be the way forward. Definitely! |
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