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Sept 16, 2016 10:24:28 GMT
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So I'm one of those people that works for myself and have never got a pension fund together. We're planning to downsize our house to be mortgage free, the idea being we have also have a little pot to try and grow for the future. A lot of boring investment websites mention 'classics' and 'vintage' cars as a good investment - but these are usually your e30 M3s, your 911s, NSX, Escort Mexicos, Pantera type of deal — so obvs way out of a mere mortal's price range. But it got me thinking about more 'everyday' future classics. 80s retros seem to be really coming back in the public consciousness - and things like street-food vans seem to be a growing phenomenon. With a section of a farmer's barn, some tarps and little bit of cash spare—I wonder if it's possible to do a bit of prospecting with interesting cars that are 'on the up'? I'm thinking hairdresser exotics, not-the-most-obvs-hot hatches, super-utilitarian cars and eligible street-food vans. Not all at once - the ideas being having one or two at a time that are appreciating... Anyone got any experience with this sort of thing? ie: AW10 Mk1 MR2s Celica Mk2 Notchback Subaru SVX Civic CRX Del Sol Bertone X1/9 Visa GTI 205 Rallye Non-M model E30s - maybe a Touring 325i Audi Coupe Mk2 SuperCinq GT Turbo Fiat Mk1 Panda Lancia Y10 'White Hen' Citroen Mehari Nissan Pao Nissan Be1 Renault 4 Van Renault Master Mercedes 207 VW T25 syncro westy Honda Step Van Daihatsu Walkthrough Miravan Anyone got other good suggestions for less-than-obvious investments? Is sitting on a retro or two to make a bit on the side against the spirit of things? (ideally I would get to drive them so maybe not ) Or is it all too 'small potatoes' - too much work to be bothered?
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Sept 16, 2016 10:53:10 GMT
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Good on you for retiring and having a plan The first question is are you car savvy classics and retros car hide all manner of problems But you are right about prices increasing I'm not so sure about buying them and storing them you would prolly be better trying to buy cheap and sell a bit higher (maybe income tax issues ) As storing brings it's own set of problems But one things for sure my pension ain't worth a w### I would have been better of putting it in my own savings account I also have a few things to fall back on so I'm not to worried,I learnt a long time ago that no one looks after you better than yourself Have a long happy retirement my friend
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Sept 16, 2016 11:06:12 GMT
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AX gt, saxo vtr/vts, corsa b sri/gsi, early impreza turbo these are the cars that teenage boys at mcdonalds aspired to but couldnt insure
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Sept 16, 2016 11:07:52 GMT
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thanks avengertec. Sadly not retiring just yet (I'm 43...) but feeling like I need to start thinking like a grown-up—So why not combine a passion with something practical? I know very little about fixing the mechanicals so this idea is probably a bust—but interested to see if anyone on here has ever made a go of investing in tin (worm)
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Sept 16, 2016 11:16:03 GMT
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Cars are rarely an investment except at the top end, and usually that's just people getting lucky, like buy a Ferrari 250 GTO when values were much lower.
Even if you had a car that was worth very little, and worth 10k in five years, it would be offset by having to store it. Even if storage is "free", you still need to look after the car. If you don't use it.. which would be a shame, it can be worst than actually using it, stuff decays quite alarmingly in anything other than perfect conditions. If you do use it, you need to replace bits. It all adds up.
To me the best you can usually hope for is breaking even overall having had the enjoyment of owning it.
Maybe as a retirement hobby/business, where you buy things, put a bit of work into them and sell on, you might supplement a pension as an ongoing thing if you were physically able to, but the idea that you can buy these and sit on them like property/shares/bonds doesn't really work out.
I think a lot of people are buying classics due to low interests rates, simply because their savings aren't doing much and may as well enjoy themselves now.
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colnerov
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,832
Member is Online
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Sept 16, 2016 11:42:01 GMT
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Hi, Beware of buying cars that are 'scene' or 'fashionable' now because they may not be in 5 or 10 yrs time, look back to what everyone wanted 10 yrs ago and try and find one now and see what the value is now. A point to show this is old Fords especially Escorts, 10 yrs ago they were a few hundred pounds now they're many thousands if you can stop toerags nicking then. In 10 yrs time...what? The fact you can't fix them means you have to pay someone and that eats into any gains.
Colin
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Sept 16, 2016 12:44:33 GMT
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Personally I think if I had the storage I'd be buying up ever hot 106 and Saxo I could find, I reckon in ten to twenty years time they will be the mk1 and mk2 escort of their time!
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jonk
Part of things
Posts: 154
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Sept 16, 2016 12:54:37 GMT
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Or, if you have the free space, get stuff which people are pretty much giving away and surely it will only go up, even if not by much. Like a barn full of base model mk3 fiestas, Mk3 golfs, old corsas, pug 205 or 309s. Perhaps a scrappy xj40?
Might make you the same as a savings account (i.e. not much)! Or you will end up with lots of rusty piles of junk to get rid of in 10 years time.
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Sept 16, 2016 13:18:00 GMT
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Fill a barn with cars and you just end up one of those mad old fellas with a barn full cars looking sorry for themselves that everyone just thinks is a crying shame.
One thing that I think could be a low physical work business to supplement a pension (again, this is a low key business, not an investment in the conventional sense), if you had a large, dry shed, would be to pick a specific marque or even model of car or motorcycle that may have a following in time, but isn't massively catered to already, and do you your homework on it, then buy as many parts cheaply as you can. Dealers having a clearout of old stock especially, but also auto jumbles or buying cars that aren't worth repairing to break. Carefully catalogue each part, seperating new-old-stock from used. Refurbish the used parts to a saleable quality and wait til you've built up a comprehensive range of parts.
Then, as your regular career is winding down, you could then start trading. Parts can sit on your shelf for years, but if you're the go-to guy and deliver good service, including international shipping, someone will want those parts. There is an element of risk of course, but I think it could be a low day to day cost, and low physical work business once you've got a nice inventory of parts which you would top over time.
It'd probably be a better steady money maker and actually be a great contribution to the retro community if done right, helping people keep cars on the road in a few years. A lot of cars that aren't even that old, like 80s toyotas can be quite hard to get good parts for, and some parts can be surprisingly expensive as a result.
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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2016 13:18:54 GMT by crankcase
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Sept 16, 2016 13:57:37 GMT
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If I could right now I'd be buying up good condition Saxo VTR (was the that turbo nutter ones?), Early Vauxhall VXRs, Peugeot 205s, Escort Cosworths (although these seem to have up an gone in price), Maserati 3200s (although that may just be me that wants them), Mitsubishi Lancer Evo (just about any of them), Non-ragged Subaru Imprezza WRXs. Basically anything that people would have had a picture of on their wall, or featured prominently in Gran Turismo.
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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2016 14:40:06 GMT by HoTWire
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Sept 16, 2016 14:29:19 GMT
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Thanks crankcase for this - it mostly confirmed my suspicions as of course unless preserved in amber, things deteriorate no matter what you do. It's sad that work->in on cars rarely equates to value—>up except in those rare cases. I'm sure if we all had time machines we'd travel to the mid 80s and snap up a few Mk1 escort shells
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Sept 16, 2016 14:32:07 GMT
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Basically anything that people would have had a picture of on their wall, or featured prominently in Gran Turismo. Haha - yes - 100% this. Mine's a Legacy turbo wagon
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Sept 16, 2016 14:35:34 GMT
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Fill a barn with cars and you just end up one of those mad old fellas with a barn full cars looking sorry for themselves that everyone just thinks is a crying shame. One thing that I think could be a low physical work business to supplement a pension (again, this is a low key business, not an investment in the conventional sense), if you had a large, dry shed, would be to pick a specific marque or even model of car or motorcycle that may have a following in time, but isn't massively catered to already, and do you your homework on it, then buy as many parts cheaply as you can. Dealers having a clearout of old stock especially, but also auto jumbles or buying cars that aren't worth repairing to break. Carefully catalogue each part, seperating new-old-stock from used. Refurbish the used parts to a saleable quality and wait til you've built up a comprehensive range of parts. Then, as your regular career is winding down, you could then start trading. Parts can sit on your shelf for years, but if you're the go-to guy and deliver good service, including international shipping, someone will want those parts. There is an element of risk of course, but I think it could be a low day to day cost, and low physical work business once you've got a nice inventory of parts which you would top over time. It'd probably be a better steady money maker and actually be a great contribution to the retro community if done right, helping people keep cars on the road in a few years. A lot of cars that aren't even that old, like 80s toyotas can be quite hard to get good parts for, and some parts can be surprisingly expensive as a result. This is really good advice - thanks! We do a fair of ebay selling anyway and I always feel like the right parts stored and catalogued properly would always be in demand if you can provide the service and sell enough to make the effort worthwhile. We used to have an Audi A2 (it got t-boned sadly) which isn't retro yet, but has a massive fan base (I know they're marmite, but that's part of the charm) due to the Aluminum chassis and fuel sipping engines - maybe as a definite future classic that would be a good starting point for spares specialism? Or is one model too niche?
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Sept 16, 2016 14:49:02 GMT
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We used to have an Audi A2 which isn't retro but has a massive fan base due to the Aluminum chassis and fuel sipping engines - maybe as a definite future classic that would be a good starting point for spares specialism. Or is one model too niche? You could spread the risk over two models, but then you'd be less able to buy inventory for the same cash, not to mention the space. It's hard to say which model to pick, but the A2 is not a bad shout, it's already sort of a cult car, I think they're fascinating personally, I love both these and the A8. You do want to pick a niche model, there's no point trying to compete with something already well catered for, like Fords or MX5s, there are people who do that really well. Better to be the big fish in the small pond. THE guy for one model, just like now there are people who only do parts for Triumph TRs or RWD Alfas, which is niche, but on a global level, a sustainable business. You won't get rich, but it could be a nice top up to your income, while being involved with the retro community. I think you also need to weigh up how well a model will be supported by the manufacturer in future. Some manufacturers are brilliant with heritage, some are truly awful. For example, with Mercedes, you could probably almost still buy parts for a Daimler Patent Wagen so there would be less demand for a specialists unless they can undercut on price, but Toyota like I mentioned discontinue and clear out things very rapidly so parts for AE86s and starlets, especially trim and bodywork are sought after. I'm not sure what VAG are like, because I've limited exposure to their cars, but that's worth weighing up too.
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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2016 14:49:24 GMT by crankcase
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Sept 16, 2016 15:21:44 GMT
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I'm sure it can be done but storage is the issue really.I had five Mk2 Escorts when they were cheap bangers,mostly 2 door shells including a Mex and a 1600 sport.If and it's a big if i had somewhere dry and cheap to salt them away for 20 years it would have no doubt been a nice little nest egg even allowing for some deterioration.
If i was looking to do it now i would be buying up classic Imprezas,the Scooby scene name for the MK1.This would include the UK Turbo,WRX and specials like the Catalunya. Once they become eligible for historic rallying prices will go radio rental imho. Few years away yet,the current limit is 1985 for historics i think and Imprezas began in 1992. They are already becoming quite a rare sight.
If you want to go for something niche how about Smarts either full cars or parts ? Already a bit of cult car and maybe the Isetta,Heinkel etc of the future.I saw one the other day on a 98 plate.I was quite suprised as they still seem new to me but 18 years old already. The roadster is a guaranteed future classic i think but all will become collectible i reckon and never sold in massive numbers.
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Sept 16, 2016 15:29:38 GMT
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If you want to go for something niche how about Smarts either full cars or parts ? Smarts a definitely interesting idea, not least because they are maybe a bit easier to store? Roadsters do seem like a bit of an untapped future-track car though - still a bit 'hairdresser' in the public psyche but I reckon a few years and they could be regarded a bit like a Caterham or early MR2?
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Sept 16, 2016 15:44:34 GMT
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I If you want to go for something niche how about Smarts either full cars or parts ? Smarts a definitely interesting idea, not least because they are maybe a bit easier to store? Roadsters do seem like a bit of an untapped future-track car though - still a bit hairdresser in the public psyche but I recon a few years and they could be regarded a bit like a Caterham or early MR2. Yeah,that did cross my mind,space effficient for storage ! Parts would probably be quite a good thing to be in as well.There is demand for the plastic panels as people do swaps to change the colour and mechanical parts will always be sought after as the early engines are not that long lived.
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Sept 16, 2016 15:56:45 GMT
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I doubt the roadster will ever be seen in a similar light to Caterham or MR2, at least standard-ish. The steerings not the best and the gearbox is slow (but not the nightmare some would have you believe). It can be good fun on track sure, but not that sort of level. It is a lot of fun on road for sure, and surprisingly refined. It's going to continue to have a following for sure, however, I think there's already a few people dealing in parts for them already. Not to mention, being M-B related, probably well supported OEM too.
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Sept 16, 2016 20:42:50 GMT
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I try to follow the RR "stay positive or stay quiet" theme but in this case I think you have a few problems that make the idea a non-starter Buying spares that might be hard-to-find / expensive in the future - you'll need a lot of dry secure storage (especially if you keep panels) Buying common cars that might jump in value - same as above, you'll need a *big* dry storage for *lots* of years, and be prepared for things deteriorating (brakes, rust, etc). Security? Buying a handfull of high-end expensive cars that might jump in value - same as above but with extra security. All of the above assume you can identify what will jump in value, can you? Trends point at things jumping after about 30 years ( 1970/80 Mk1 & Mk2 Escorts started rising about 10 years ago, now 1980/1990 icons are climbing ??) Maybe put unmodifed hot-hatches high on the list Top marks for thinking outside the box but I'd say it's a big gamble. Pics, we like pics...
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Sept 16, 2016 21:49:45 GMT
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Personally I would buy a barn with some land, sub divide the barn into smaller units and rent spaces for car/ caravan storage - obviously you will need to sort out security, the return on this should cover your mortgage on the land, as you have extra cash buy something and stash it away in your corner of the barn, invest in some racking like they use when depolluting vehicles for maximum storage capacity.
Buy modern shitters when scrap prices are low stack them and send them over the bridge once it goes up again for cash income after stripping off cats/ battery/ alloys and anything else saleable. Do this out of sight so there are no complaints and don't buy anywhere overlooked.
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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2016 21:52:57 GMT by dodgerover
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